Question: What kinds of names are clearly of Nochrim?

Answer (Rav Papa): Some examples are Hormiz, Avudaina bar Shivetai,...

Inference: If the names could be of Yisre'elim, the Get is Pasul.

Question: If so, why does the Reisha teach 'they are Pasul only when done by commoners'? Even if judges made the Get, we can distinguish!

It is valid only if the judges' names are clearly of Nochrim. If not, it is Pasul!

Answer #1: This is what the Mishnah means!

It is valid only if the judges' names are clearly of Nochrim. If not, it is as if it was done by commoners, and it is Pasul.

Answer #2: The Reisha refers to monetary documents.

It teaches that monetary documents are Pasul only when done by commoners.

(Beraisa - R. Shimon): R. Akiva and Chachamim agree that all documents made in Nochri courts are valid, even if Nochrim signed them, even Gitei Nashim or freedom;

They argue only when they are done by commoners. R. Akiva says that they are valid. Chachamim disqualify them, except for Gitei Nashim or freedom. (All agree that these are valid, even if they were done by commoners.)

R. Shimon ben Gamliel says, Gitei Nashim or freedom (signed by Nochri commoners) are valid only in places where Yisre'elim do not normally sign them.

Question: He should decree to disqualify them even where Yisre'elim do not normally sign them, due to places where Yisre'elim normally sign them!

Answer: In a place where Yisre'elim normally sign, if we would accept Gitin with clearly Nochri names, people would also accept Gitin with names that could be Yisre'elim (and they might rely on the signatures). People do not distinguish between the difference in names;

We can accept Gitin (with names that are clearly of Nochrim) in places where Yisre'elim normally do not sign them, and people will not come to accept them in places where Yisre'elim normally sign them.

Ravina was about to accept monetary documents made in gatherings of Nochrim.

Rafram: The Mishnah accepts only those made in their courts.

(Rava): A Persian document given in front of Yisrael witnesses may be used to collect from Bnei Chorin (the borrower's property, but not from what he sold).

Question: The witnesses cannot read it!

Answer: The case is, they can.

Question: We require writing that cannot be (erased and) forged!

Answer: The paper was treated with gall-nuts. (The writing cannot be erased).

Question: The last line of the document must summarize the document!

Answer: It does.

Question: If so, one should be able to collect even from property that the borrower sold (after the loan)!

Answer: People do not hear about such a document. (Buyers did not know about a lien on the land.)

Version #1 - Question (Reish Lakish): If witnesses signed on a Get, and their names are Nochri names, what is the law?

Answer (R. Yochanan): We had only one case, in which the names were Lukas and Luke. We accepted it.

We accepted these names; but if (also) Yisre'elim often have such names, the Get would be Pasul.

Question (Beraisa): Signed Gitin from abroad are valid, even though the witnesses' names are Nochri names, since most Yisre'elim in Chutz La'aretz have Nochri names.

Answer: The Beraisa itself gives the reason, because most Yisre'elim in Chutz La'aretz have Nochri names!

Version #2 - Question (Reish Lakish): What is the law of signed Gitin from abroad, on which the witnesses' names are Nochri names?

Answer (R. Yochanan - Beraisa): They are valid, since most Yisre'elim in Chutz La'aretz have Nochri names.

(Mishnah - R. Meir): If Reuven told a Shali'ach 'give this Get to my wife', or 'to my slave', in either case Reuven can retract;

Chachamim say, he can retract from a Get to his wife, but not from a Get to his slave;

This is because we may do something beneficial for someone in his absence, but not something detrimental. (A Shali'ach can receive a Get on behalf of a slave, for freedom is beneficial, since one need not feed his slave. One cannot accept a Get for a woman, for divorce is detrimental, since one must feed his wife.)

R. Meir: Also freedom is detrimental. It disqualifies a slave from eating Terumah, just like divorce!

Chachamim: That is because a slave is his master's property. (This will be explained.)

(Gemara - Rav Huna): We learn from Chachamim that if one seized property from a borrower to acquire it on behalf of a creditor, he acquires it for him (just like a Shali'ach acquires a Get for a slave).

Question (R. Yitzchak bar Yosef): Does this apply even if this harms others? (There are other creditors who would have wanted to seize the property.)

Answer (Rav Huna): Yes!

Rejection (R. Yirmeyah): R. Yochanan taught that if one seized property from a borrower on behalf of a creditor when this harms others, he did not acquire.

Your proof from our Mishnah is invalid. One who says 'give' means 'acquire for.' (Reuven himself told the Shali'ach to acquire.)

(Rav Chisda): R. Eliezer and Chachamim argue about one who seizes property from a borrower on behalf of a creditor when this harms others:

(Mishnah - R. Eliezer): If Levi gathered Pe'ah (produce in the corner of the field which is left for the poor) and said 'this is for Ploni the Oni (poor person)', he acquired for him;

Chachamim say, he must give it to the first Oni he finds.