THE PERIOD OF HACHRAZAH
(Beraisa - R. Meir): The Hachrazah of orphans is 30 days. The Hachrazah of Hekdesh is 60 days;
R. Yehudah says, the Hachrazah of orphans is 60 days. The Hachrazah of Hekdesh is 90 days;
Chachamim say, the Hachrazah of both of these is 60 days.
(Rav Chisda citing Avimi): The Halachah is, the Hachrazah of orphans is 60 days.
R. Chiya bar Avin taught this to Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak.
Rav Nachman: Did you say 30 or 60? Was this for orphans or Hekdesh? Is this like R. Meir or R. Yehudah?
R. Chiya: I said 60. It is for orphans. This is like R. Meir.
Rav Nachman: R. Meir says that the Hachrazah of orphans is 30 days!
R. Chiya: Avimi lashed Rav Chisda greatly until he properly understood this:
(R. Meir holds that) if the Hachrazah is every day (except for Shabbos), it lasts for 30 days. If it is only on Mondays and Thursdays, it lasts for 60 days.
Even though there are only 18 Mondays and Thursdays in 60 days, since the Hachrazah is over a long period, people hear about it.
WHEN DO WE SELL ORPHANS' PROPERTY?
(Rav Asi): Beis Din will (process a claim to) collect from orphans' property only to pay off a loan (from a Nochri) on interest. (In this discussion, whenever Amora'im say "orphans," they refer to minors. Some say that some of the Tana'ic teachings apply also to adult orphans.)
(R. Yochanan): They collect only for a loan on interest or to pay a Kesuvah (because paying the Kesuvah exempts the orphans from feeding the widow).
Question: Why does Rav Asi hold that we do not pay a Kesuvah from their property?
Answer: She works in exchange for her food. (The orphans do not save through paying her Kesuvah.)
R. Yochanan says, since her work might be less than the food she eats, it is better for the orphans to pay her Kesuvah.
(Mishnah): The Hachrazah of orphans is 30 days. The Hachrazah of Hekdesh is 60 days. They announce in the morning and evening.
Question: Why is the property being sold?
Suggestion: It is to pay a Nochri creditor. (He lent to their father on interest.)
Rejection: He would not consent to wait 30 days! (Rashi - he would not consent without interest. Surely we would not agree to pay additional interest for 30 days of Hachrazah, lest we not find anyone willing to pay more for the field than was offered on the first day.)
Answer #1: It is to pay a Yisrael creditor.
Surely, this is not due to interest. A Yisrael may not collect interest from orphans (or any other Yisrael)!
R. Yochanan can explain that it is to pay a Kesuvah.
Question: How can Rav Asi explain it?
Counter-question: According to R. Yochanan, why should we delay paying the Kesuvah? The widow definitely eats, and perhaps we will not receive more for the field!
Answer: The case is, she demanded payment of the Kesuvah in Beis Din;
(Rav Yehudah): Once a widow demands payment of her Kesuvah in Beis Din, she is no longer fed from the orphans' property (even before she is paid).
Question: If she is no longer fed, we should not sell the orphans' property to pay her (until they grow up)!
Answer: Since we recognized her claim in the beginning (and stopped feeding her due to it), we recognize it in the end (and we help her to collect. Tosfos Yom Tov - if not, no widow would demand her Kesuvah before the orphans grow up!)
We still have not answered for Rav Asi.
Answer #2: Really, it is to pay a Nochri creditor. The case is, he agreed to follow the laws of Yisrael.
Question: If so, he should not charge interest!
Answer: He agreed to follow the laws of Yisrael regarding Hachrazah, but not regarding interest.
(Mishnah): We collect only Ziburis (lowest quality land) from orphans' property.
Question: Why is the property being sold?
Suggestion: It is to pay a Nochri creditor.
Rejection: He would not consent to wait!
Answer #1: It is to pay a Yisrael creditor.
Surely, this is not due to interest!
R. Yochanan can explain that it is to pay a Kesuvah.
Question: How can Rav Asi explain it?
Counter-question: According to R. Yochanan, why does it say that we collect only Ziburis from orphans' property? A Kesuvah is collected from Ziburis even from her husband!
Answer: The Mishnah is R. Meir, who says that a divorcee collecting her Kesuvah from her husband receives Beinonis (middle quality land).
We still have not answered for Rav Asi.
Answer #2: Really, it is to pay a Nochri creditor. The case is, he agreed to follow the laws of Yisrael.
Question: If so, he should not charge interest!
Answer: He agreed to follow the laws of Yisrael regarding Hachrazah, but not regarding interest.
WHEN DO WE SELL ORPHANS' PROPERTY? (cont.)
(Beraisa): (They announce... ) whether the money will be used to pay a Kesuvah or a creditor.
We can explain why a creditor is paid, like above. (We pay a Nochri, due to interest);
Question: This is like R. Yochanan, who says that we pay a Kesuvah from orphans' property. It is unlike Rav Asi!
Answer: The case is, her (ex-)husband admitted (just before he died) that he did not give her money for the Kesuvah.
This suggests another answer to Questions (2:e) and (2:l) above.
Answer #3: The case (in which we announce orphans' property) is when their father admitted that he did not give her money for the Kesuvah.
Mereimar collected a Kesuvah for a divorcee from orphans' property.
Question (Ravina): Rav Asi says that we sell only due to interest, and R. Yochanan adds to this only a Kesuvah due to food;
R. Yochanan would not pay a Kesuvah to a divorcee, for she is not fed!
Answer (Ameimar): We explain R. Yochanan differently. We pay a Kesuvah from orphans' property due to Chen (to find favor. This applies even to a divorcee. Rashi - we make it readily collectable, to encourage women to get married. R. Chananel - this encourages men to marry women (who are entitled to a Kesuvah from previous marriage). Aruch - confidence of payment causes women to faithfully serve their husbands. R. Gershom - this causes men to be pleased with their wives.)
(Rav Nachman): At first, I never collected from orphans' property;
After I heard Rav Huna cite Rav to say that orphans who consume others' (i.e. creditors') property should follow their father (i.e. die), I collect from their property.
Question: Initially, why didn't he collect?
Answer #1 (Rav Papa): Paying a creditor is a Mitzvah. Minors are exempt from Mitzvos.
Answer #2 (Rav Huna brei d'Rav Yehoshua): Perhaps the father gave money (Rashi - just before he died) to his creditor (for the debt, and did not take back the document).
Question: What is the difference between these answers?
Answer: The father admitted (just before he died) that he still owes, or if he was excommunicated for not paying and died in Niduy. (Had he paid, he would have done so in Beis Din so they would end the Niduy.)
The Halachah follows Rav Huna brei d'Rav Yehoshua.
CASES IN WHICH WE SELL ORPHANS' PROPERTY
(Mishnah): The Hachrazah of orphans is 30 days. That of Hekdesh is 60 days. They announce morning and evening.
Question: Why is the property being sold?
Suggestion: It is to pay a Nochri creditor.
Rejection: He would not consent to wait!
Answer #1: It is to pay a Yisrael creditor.
Question: Granted, Rav Huna can explain that the father admitted that he still owes;
However, how can Rav Papa explain this?
Answer #2: It is to pay a Kesuvah, due to Chen.
Answer #3: Really, it is to pay a Nochri creditor. The case is, he agreed to follow the laws of Yisrael.
Question: If so, he should wait until they grow up!
Answer: He agreed to wait for Hachrazah, but not until they grow up.
(Beraisa): (They announce... ) whether the money will be used to pay a Kesuvah or a creditor.
Question: What is the case (of a creditor)?
Suggestion: It is to pay a Nochri creditor.
Rejection: He would not consent to wait!
Answer #1: It is to pay a Yisrael creditor.
Question: Granted, Rav Huna can explain that the father admitted that he still owes;
Granted, Rav Papa can explain that the Kesuvah is due to Chen;
However, how can he explain why the creditor collects?
Answer #2: Really, it is to pay a Nochri creditor. The case is, he agreed to follow the laws of Yisrael.
Question: If so, he should wait until they grow up!
Answer: He agreed to wait for Hachrazah, but not until they grow up.
Answer #3 (to Question 3:l, Amud A - Rava): We do not collect from orphans' property, lest the father paid the debt and received a receipt (but did not take back the document).
Question (Rav Huna brei d'Rav Yehoshua): We are not concerned for a receipt!
(Mishnah): In order to collect a Kesuvah in the absence of her husband, a woman must swear (that she did not already receive any part of it).
(R. Acha Sar ha'Birah): A case occurred in which R. Yitzchak Nafcha said that we do not collect a regular debt from someone in his absence. We collect only a Kesuvah, due to Chen.
(Rava citing Rav Nachman): Even a creditor may collect in the absence of the borrower.
If we are concerned for a receipt, he should not collect!
Answer (Rava): Rav Nachman's law is an enactment, lest people borrow money and go overseas (knowing that the lender will not be able to collect).
THE HALACHAH
(Rava): The Halachah is, we do not collect from orphans' property;
If the father said "give," we give;
If he said "(give) this field" or "this Maneh (100 Zuz)," we give it. We need not appoint an overseer;
If he said "(give) a field" or "a Maneh," we appoint an overseer to pick the worst field (or coins) to give.
(Chachamim of Neharda'a): We always (Tosfos - even if he said "this field" or "this Maneh") deal with the case and appoint an overseer (to verify if it indeed should be given);
The only exception is when witnesses testify that the father stole a field. Then, we return it. we do not appoint an overseer (to investigate whether or not it was really stolen), we do not suspect that witnesses lie.
(Rav Ashi): We never process a claim to collect orphans' property, like Rava said;
If we (improperly) accepted the claim, we appoint an overseer, for Chachamim of Neharda'i say that we always process a claim and appoint an overseer, except for when witnesses testify that the field was stolen; for we do not suspect witnesses.