More Discussions for this daf
1. Lashon ha'Ra 2. Rebbi Chama 3. Nega'im for Lashon ha'Ra
4. The Guards against Lashon ha'Ra 5. Kills Three
DAF DISCUSSIONS - ERCHIN 15

H. David Levine asks:

I had seen that 'loshon hora' kills three: the speaker, the listener, and the subject of the slander as well.

I feel that there is some justice, to expect the demise of two: the speaker and listener. They both make errors in judgement. One could as well hold his tongue, and the other make every effort not to believe what is said. The third seems innocent of fault. Is it really nonsensical, 'tefila shav,' to ask of Hash-m that he avenge us of loshon hora, or spare us the consequences of another's slandering us, since the Torah faults the subject of the speech as much as the speaker and listener?

H. David Levine, Roanoke, VA

The Kollel replies:

Shalom,

It should be understood that "kills" must not be taken literally, as not every subject of slander dies. As Chazal say in other contexts, "death" can refer to a wound as well. Indeed, it might also refer to a monetary loss or to any form of negative decline.

Having said that, in answer to your question, even though every Jew has two angels that protect him to a certain degree, as David ha'Melech says in Tehilim (91:11), this does not mean that no harm can ever befall a person. The Torah speaks about not leaving one's roof without a parapet, lest one be guilty of murder should someone fall off of it. As Rashi explains, the victim may well be Chayav Misah for some reason, but that does not absolve the owner of the house from being responsible for his death.

Likewise, if Reuven shoots Shimon and kills him, Shimon may have been Chayav Misah, yet Reuven is guilty of murder.

By the same token, if Reuven slanders Shimon and causes him harm, Shimon deserves (either as a punishment, or for another reason that only Hash-m knows) whatever happens as a result of that slander, and Reuven is nevertheless guilty of slander.

It is only Beis Din (of three or twenty-three) that has the right to punish a person who has sinned. Anybody else is held liable for doing so (unless it is in self-defense).

Finally, assuming that the victim is innocent (or Hash-m deems that there is no basis for him to undergo harm), the slander will not affect him, although that will not necessarily absolve the slanderer.

B'Virchas Kol Tuv,

Eliezer Chrysler