More Discussions for this daf
1. The best of doctors 2. Rebbi Yehudah 3. Woe to the father of daughters
4. Parnasah 5. Rambam 6. Teaching a child Umnus
7. Animals at Work? 8. Rashi's Approval? 9. Prohibitions
10. נקייה וקלה 11. נקייה וקלה
DAF DISCUSSIONS - KIDUSHIN 82

David Goldman asks:

On Kiddushin 82a and the Tosefta I don't understand what R. Yehuda etc. are actually saying. Does this mean that a bachur tending to animals in the field has an actual ta'ayva for animals, but a married man would not? How would any person have such a tayva at all? In addition, if it is prohibited for bochurim to sleep under the same blanket, does this mean that married men would not have the tayva here either, AND that the only concern is possible mishkav zachor? What about other possible contact that does not involve the actual physical act? Is this of less concern?

And if the gemara only suggests in the case of a teacher that a bochur would become involved not with the children, but with the mothers, then perhaps the original concern about animals does not involve actual sex either, but something else completely unrelated to contact with the animals or students, etc.? And does this all change according to the Mechaber in Even Ha'ezer back to the original concern of Rabbi Yehuda for teaching, tending to animals, and sleeping? Thanks.

David Goldman, USA

The Kollel replies:

Dear David,

Bachurim are considered by Chazal to have stronger sexual urges than married men because they have no permissible outlet for these urges (see Tosfos here) and, according to Rebbi Yehudah, these urges could be expressed in perverse ways. Even according to the Chachamim who argue with Rebbi Yehudah, it is possible that any particular Jew, married or single, could have urges for these perverse behaviors; after all, the prohibitions of Mishkav Zachar and Revi'as Beheimah were also made on Jews (ipso facto, these urges must exist). However, they hold that these urges are not common enough to warrant making the Seyagim that Rebbi Yehudah makes.

You ask about the case of a Bachur teaching little boys. Don't forget that the Gemara there is going according to the Chachamim who aren't concerned with Mishkav Zachar. Indeed, according to Rebbi Yehudah it is possible that we *are* concerned with Mishkav Zachar between the teacher and the students.

Finally, the Psak of the Mechaber in Even ha'Ezer follows the Chachamim, not Rebbi Yehudah. L'Halachah, there is no prohibition for a Bachur to be a shepherd or to sleep in the same bed as another Bachur.

Kol Tuv,

Yonasan Sigler

This is not a Psak Halachah