More Discussions for this daf
1. Rei'ach Haget 2. Four Zekeinim Visit Rebbi Eliezer Ha'Gadol 3. Coercion to Give a Get
DAF DISCUSSIONS - GITIN 88

David Goldman asks:

How is it possible that it is not possible to physically coerce a recalcitrant man to give his wife a get when the Mishnah in the Yerushalmi in Kesuvos etc. explain that even odors are bad enough to force him? If odors are cause for coercing him to give a get, then kal vachomer physical and emotional abuse, gambling, unfaithfulness, which all have as bad or worse effects on a woman than bad odors! Isn't it straightforward UNLESS it is argued that secular authorities do not allow us to carry out coercion to require a religious divorce? Thanks.

David Goldman, NYC

The Kollel replies:

1) The Teshuvos Tashbetz (2:8; by Rabeinu Shimon ben Tzemach, who is often cited in the Shulchan Aruch) rules that if the wife cannot bear her husband because of the pain he causes her, then he should divorce her. He cites the Gemara in Kesuvos (77a) that "a person cannot live in the same box as a snake."

Upon looking further into the words of the Tashbetz, I saw that you were Zocheh, bs'd, to be Mechaven to his logic. He writes that if a man can be forced to divorce his wife because of his bad odors, then Kal va'Chomer he can be forced to divorce her if he causes her constant pain, which is more bitter than death.

The Tashbetz also cites the Gemara in Kesubos (61a) where Rebbi Eliezer teaches us the idea behind marriage. He cites Bereishis 3:20, which sayas about Chava, "... for she was the mother of all the living." We learn from this that marriage was given to us for good living, not for pain.

2) In the case of gambling, it would depend on whether -- as a result of the money he loses from gambling -- he is not able to fulfill his financial obligations to his wife. If he is unable then he must divorce her, if she wants this, but if he is able to meet his obligations, then it does not seem logical that Beis Din can force a husband to divorce his wife because of his expensive hobbies.

3) See Shulchan Aruch YD 228:20, at the end of the Rema, that if she says that she finds her husband repulsive, he must divorce her.

4) The Teshuvos Maharshal #69 writes that if the wife says that her husband is repulsive because he is always drinking in the taverns and comes home drunk, this is certainly considered a strong enough reason to demand a Get.

Kol Tuv,

Dovid Bloom

David Goldman asks:

Then why isn't it obvious nowadays that such a man can be physically coerced to give the get?! Why all the talk about agunahs if there are perfectly valid circumstances to physically force him?!

The Kollel replies:

This must be connected with what Rav Moshe Feinstein zt'l wrote in Igros Moshe (EH 3:43, at end), that it is not practically possible nowadays to force a husband to divorce his wife. Rabbinical courts do not possess sufficient power in our times.

It should be pointed out that in Eretz Yisrael the husband can be put in prison in cases where, according to the Halachah, he is obligated to divorce his wife but refuses to do so. In addition, he may be forced to support his wife financially and pay her Kesubah even if they are not living together, until he agrees to divorce her.

Dovid Bloom