To the Chavrei HaKollel with Kavod
Sanhedrin 8:
The Braisa that says we're not worried about Laaz, According to Ula when would the chachamim need three.
The implication is the result of the girls father bringing Eidim that are Mezameim the husband's, and now it's a second case where the father is claiming his knas from the husband.
I'm having difficulty with 2 aspects of this explanation.
1. Why would the brides father need to initiate a second case to collect the knas of the Motzi Shem Rah. The establishment of the husband being a Motzi sheim Rah took place when he brought his own witnesses!
2. If the husband brought eidim that his Kallah was mezaneh after eirusin..
Even though the father brought witnesses of hazamah; Bedikah and Chakirah would still be required for the husbands, and the fathers. So there is still an inyan of Dinei Nefashos. If the zomemim are accepted, wouldn't the eidim brought by the husband be chayav Misah for va'Asisem Lo Ka'asher Zamam la'Asos l'Achiv?
If the father brought witnesses that were äëçùä So then there would no longer be a dinei Nefashos.
And being that it wasn't merely a monetary claim from the husband, why would he be believed for her kesubah, at the same time the father would not have a case.
3. Separately-Based on the explanation provided that the father is making a claim, the only time knas would apply is if the bride is a Naarah...Rashi seems to interpret the case where the bride is not necessarily a Naarah.
Avrahom Kevelson, United States
Dear Avraham,
It's called a second case because, in the beginning, the husband is claiming against his wife and she might get killed. Later, when the father shows that the husband is lying, there is a change in the direction of the claim. This is a new case against the husband and only needs three Dayanim.
The father who wants a Kenas from the husband is a separate case and has nothing to do with the husband's witnesses who might be put to death.
All the best,
Reuven Weiner