More Discussions for this daf
1. Two opposite rulings of Rebbi 2. "b'Matnita Tana" 3. "Leima Mesayea Le"
4. Yosam being conceived while his father was a Metzora 5. Why a Metzora Muchlat would want to become Tahor; Uziah 6. Viewing a potential metzora
7. Divrei Rebbi Meir 8. Metzora Having Relations with his Wife 9. Ro'im Es ha'Nega'im
10. התם נמי לסתור ולא ליבני 11. התם נמי ליסתור ולא ליבני 12. Divrei Rebbi Meir
DAF DISCUSSIONS - MOED KATAN 7

R' Uri W. asked:

Rebbi Chiya says that Rebbi taught that Uziyahu and his wife conceived Yosam while Uziyahu was a Metzora Muchlat. We learn from there that a Metzora Muchlat is permitted to be with his wife.

The Gemara, though, cites no verses or source to support this historical fact.

How do we know that Yosam was conceived while his father was a Metzora?

R' Mordechai Rabin replies:

1. To understand the Gemara's statement that Yosam ben Azaryah (who was also called Uziyah, or Uziyahu, as our Gemara refers to him) was conceived at a time when Azaryah was a confirmed Metzora Muchlat, we must first review several statements in Melachim II, chapters 14 and 15. The verses there show (1) that Yerovam (the second), king of Yisrael, ruled for 41 years; (2) that Azaryah (who was also called Azaryah) ruled over Yehudah for 52 years; and (3) that Yosam was 25 years old when Azaryah died, so that Yosam was born in the 27th year of his father's reign.

There are two further statements which, on the basis of the above assertions, conflict with each other: (a) that Zacharyahu, the son of Yerovam, became king in the 38th year of Azaryah's reign (15:8). This shows that Yerovam became king of Yisrael 3 years before Azaryah became king of Yehudah (that is, since Azaryah reigned for a total of 52 years (#2 above), if Zacharyahu became king (at the death of Yerovam) in the 38th year of Azaryah's reign as the verse states, that means that Yerovam's 41-year reign (#1 above) ended in the 38th year of Azaryah's -- and thus it began 3 years earlier); (b) that Azaryah became king in the 27th year of Yerovam's reign (15:1). (Thus, the problem is clear: If Azaryah became king in the 27th year of Yerovam's reign, that means that Yerovam -- who died after reigning for a total of 41 years (#1 above) -- died in the 14th year of Azaryah's reign. But this conflicts with verse 8, which states that Zacharyahu, who succeeded his father, became king in the 38th year of Azaryah's reign!)

Chazal explain that what actually happened in the 27th year of Yerovam's reign was that Azaryah became a Metzora and remained so for the rest of his life (as recorded in 15:5), so that the nature of his reign then changed. It is not that he became king in the 27th year of Yerovam's reign, but that his kingship changed at that time, for he became a king with Tzora'as (and his son Yosam took over the active duty of the kingship).

2. The RITVA says that Rebbi explains the verses as described above. This means that Azaryah became a Metzora in the 24th year of his own reign (equivalent to the 27th year of Yerovam's), while Yosam was born only in the 27th year of Azaryah's reign -- three years after Azaryah became a Metzora.

Rebbi Yosi b. Yehudah, however, holds that the statement in verse 8 (in (a) above), properly understood, does not show that Yerovam's rule started before that of Azaryah's. He interprets that verse as referring to the appointment by Yerovam of Zacharyahu to rule on his behalf, which Yerovam made three years before his death (in the 38th year of his own reign). According to this interpretation, Yerovam and Azaryah started to rule in the same year, and Azaryah became a Metzora during the 27th year of his own reign (which was also the 27th year of Yerovam's reign), and during that same year Yosam was born (as in #3 above), but was conceived before Azaryah became a Metzora.

3. Rashi (Ksav Yad) basically follows the same approach, but argues (for reasons explained in his comment to Melachim II 15:8) that although Yerovam's reign in practice started three years prior to the death of his father, Yoash, the reference in 15:2 to the 27th year of his reign is to be computed from three years later, when he formally became king at the time of his father's death. This means that Azaryah became a Metzora in the 27th year of his own reign also -- the year when Yosam was born. Rebbi holds that Azaryah was already a Metzora at Yosam's conception, while Rebbi Yosi b. Yehudah holds he was a Metzora only at Yosam's birth, but not when Yosam was conceived.

(Note: Rashi quotes the She'eltos that proves that we cannot resolve the apparent contradiction in the verses by saying that there was an interregnum between the reign of Yerovam and the reign of his son Zacharyahu, such that Zacharyahu did not become king until 24 years after Yerovam's death. If this would be true, the verses (15:8 and 15:1) would be reconciled: It is true that Zacharyahu, the son of Yerovam, became king in the 38th year of Azaryah's reign (15:8), and it is also true that Azaryah became king of Yehudah in the 27th year of Yerovam's reign (15:1). Although verse 15:1 implies that Yerovam's successor (Zacharyahu) took over in the 14th year of Azaryah's reign (since Yerovam reigned for 41 years, or an additional 14 years after Azaryah became king in Yehudah), while verse 15:8 says that he took over in the 38th year of Azaryah's reign, this discrepancy of 24 years can be resolved by saying that those 24 years were a gap in the dynasty of Yerovam; indeed, Yerovam died in the 14th year of Azaryah's reign, and Zacharyahu did not reign until the 38th year of Azaryah's reign.

The proof against this explanation is that a statement in Divrei ha'Yamim shows that the reign of Yosam and the reign of Yerovam overlapped. Obviously, they were never kings at the same time. Rather, Yosam ruled on behalf of his father during his father's lifetime, at the same time that Yerovam was king in Yisrael. However, if there was an interregnum between the reign of Yerovam and the reign of his successor Zacharyahu, then Yerovam died in the 14th year of Azaryah's reign and Yosam was only born in the 27th year.)

M. Rabin

Rabbi Yehudah Landy adds:

Chofetz Chayim in Toras Kohanim offers two explanations [for how Rebbi Yosi b'Rebbi Yehudah counters Rebbi Yehudah's argument that Yosam was born during the days that Uziyahu was Muchlat]:

1) Yosam was conceived sh'Lo k'Din

2) Uziyahu wasn't a Muchlat immediately.

He refers to Peirush Hora'avad.

Y.L.