More Discussions for this daf
1. Witnesses for appointing a messenger for Kidushin 2. Marriage through Zechiyah she'Lo b'Fanav
DAF DISCUSSIONS - KIDUSHIN 45

Ahron asked:

can a person mikadish a aishah with zochin liadam shlo bifaniv? What about the other way arround?

Ahron, usa

The Kollel replies:

This is a very interesting question and the answer is based on the Gemara

at the top of Kidushin 45b.

1) At the bottom of Kidushin 45a the Gemara relates a story about 2 people who were drinking wine together. One of them took a cup of wine and said to his friend "Your daughter is mekudeshet to my son with this cup of wine!". At the top of 45b the Rabanan said to Ravina that this might be valid because the son might have given his father power of attorney to mekadesh the lady for him. Even though a son is not so arrogant to make his father into a shaliach, nevertheless possibly "Artzuei Artzei Kamei". Rashi DH v'Dilma explains that the son might have indicated to the father that he wanted to marry this woman and the father would therefore have automatically become his son's shaliach. Rashi then adds the crucial words "Zachin l'Adam She-lo b'Fanav". One learns from this that the father can indeed be mekadesh an ishah for his son through the method of zochin l'adam she-lo b'fanav. However this is only if the son showed his father that he wants to marry her because otherwise if

he do

es not want to marry this woman this is not a zecus for him.

2) I think this answers your second question whether a person can take a wife for a man through "zochin". However what about the pther way round - can one marry a husband off to a wife via "zochin"? The Shulcahn Aruch Even Ha-Ezer 36:11 writes that if someone received kidushin for his adult daughter - even though he had not been made a shaliach - there is an opinion that the daughter requires a Get if she wishes to marry someone else because there is a doubt that the first kidushin may have been valid. The source of this Halacha is cited in the Beit Yosef in the name of one of the Rishonim, the "Ba'al Ha-Itur" that a father can become a shaliach to marry off his adult daughter. The Beit Yosef, in his additions in "Bedek HaBayit", writes that the source of the Baal Ha-Itur is from the above Gemara Kidushin 45b so one learns according to Rashi's explantion there that zochin can work also to enable a woman to be married off.

3) In fact it may be easier to marry off a woman in the above way than a man. The Rosh in his Responsa chapter 35:3 writes that even though our Gemara states that we are not concerned that the son may have been happy with the father's kidushin if he did not know about it, nevertheless with a girl it may be different because the Gemara states in Kidushin 41a that a woman is sometimes happy with any husband she can find rather than to have to live a lonely life.

[See also Rashi Gitin 10a DH u'Parchinan and Or Sameach Hilchot Ishut 10:2 DH v'Kivan]

Pesach Kosher v'Sameach

Dovid Bloom