Mishna on 42/43 states that if the ketores is eaten it cannot make the person eating it be liable for kores because it is a matir for itself. My question is: that implies that if there was another matir for it - it would make someone who ate it liable for kores. But isn't the ketores a davar she'ain darcho le'echol, and a davar she'ain darcho le'echol cannot make a person liable to kores if it is eaten???
Thank you for your help.
Aaron , Woodmere, NY
See the Mishnah on 45b which says that, according to the Chachamim, one is liable for eating Ketores while Tamei. The Gemara there derives this from the Ribuy in the Pasuk of "v'ha'Basar." This Ribuy would apply to Pigul as well. (See the end of Tosfos 42b-43a, DH ha'Kometz, who says that one would also be Chayav for Etzim even though they are not edible.)
D. Zupnik
Thank you very much. I still don't fully understand how you made the connection between tumah and pigul. The gemara states that pigul has different dinim than tumah in this regard - only where matir exists does issur of pigul/kares apply, whereas by tumah, based on the posuk asher hem makdishim, this is not true by tumah - even with no matir, tumah applies and is a chiyuv kares.
furthermore, Rashi says the word habassar is only an asmachta (albeit tosafos disagree) and as such this can't be the source for malkus de'oraysa. Furthermore, the mishna on 35a states clearly the principle of es shedarch le'echol - the tanna kamma says it is kasher, and even R. eliezer who argues, does so only so far as making it posul - but not pigul.
How then is it possible to imply from the Mishna on 42/43 that if there was another matir for it - it would make someone who ate it liable for kores - a davar she'ain darcho le'echol cannot make a person liable to pigul kores if it is eaten???
Thank you again for your help.
Aaron
Although the Halachos of Tum'ah and Pigul are different, they are the same in regard to Davar she'Darko le'Echol, and still the Chachamim are Marbeh Ketores and Levonah for Tum'ah. The Tosfos Yom Tov (4:3) says that Levonah is considered
"Shayach l'Achilah" more than Eitzim.
D. Zupnik