More Discussions for this daf
1. Judicial Punishment 2. Shlomo and the child 3. She'eilas Shalom Chavero be'Shem
4. Hash-m vs. Heavenly court 5. Chayavei Kerisus she'Laku
DAF DISCUSSIONS - MAKOS 23

Harvey/Mechael asked:

Below, is an excerpt from Makkos 23b. First it says that the Heavenly Beis Din agreed to 3 things, then it says that regarding one of the 3 things Hash-m agreed. Are the two (Hash-m and the Heavenly Beis Din) always synonymous, and if so, under what circumstances.

Thanks and Good Shabbas,

Harvey

"Beis Din made three enactments, and the Heavenly Beis Din agreed: reading Megilas Esther on Purim, greeting people with Hash-m's name, and bringing Ma'aser (from (all) fruits and vegetables; alternatively, to the Mikdash, in order that Kohanim will share it with the Leviyim).

1. Regarding reading the Megilah, "Kiymu v'Kiblu ha'Yehudim" teaches that the Beis Din above affirmed what Yisrael accepted below;

2. We learn about greeting people with Hash-m's name from "Bo'az Ba... Hash-m Imachem" and "Hash-m Imcha Gibor he'Chayil."

i. Question: Why do we need the second verse?

ii. Answer: One might have thought that Bo'az decided by himself and Beis Din above did not agree. "Hash-m Imcha" shows that Hash-m agreed.

Harvey/Mechael, Los Angeles - golus

The Kollel replies:

(a) It is not clear whether you are you referring to the three occasions on which the Heavenly Beis Din agreed to what the human Beis Din enacted, or to the three places where the Holy Spirit appeared in the human Beis Din.

(b) What problem do you have with equating Hash-m with the Heavenly Beis Din, which is what the Gemara seems to do?

Wishing you a Kesivah va'Chasimah Tovah. be'Virchas Kol Tuv

Eliezer Chrysler.

Harvey Benton asks further:

I am not sure what your answer (a) is referring to, but in response to your response (b), I was wondering what the heavenly court consists of? is it

(a)- Hashem only, or perhaps

(b) -Hashem along with Malachim, Torah Sages, etc, or perhaps

(c) -just Malachim and Torah sages, (with Hashem not included).

Also, sometimes we hear of the Satan appearing before Hashem and offering arguments... is the Satan included in the Heavenly Court?

Harvey

The Kollel replies:

On the verse in No'ach (11:7), in connection with the Tower ("Come let us descend..."),

Rashi cites the Gemara in Sanhedrin (38b) and explains that in His great humility, Hashem

consulted His Beis Din.

In Vayera (19:24), in connection with Sedom, Rashi writes that wherever we find the

term "va'Hashem," it refers to Hashem and His Beis Din.

Clearly, then, Hashem has a Heavenly Court of over which He presides (as Nasi). Whether it comprises 23 Mal'achim (like the Sanhedrin Ketanah) or 71 (like the Sanhedrin Gedolah), I do not know. The Satan is unlikely to be a member of that Beis Din, since he is the chief prosecutor.

Eliezer Chrysler