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1. Kohanim drinking wine 2. Bas Sheva or Bassheva 3. Ishah Marah
4. Avishag 5. v'Zos ha'Torah 6. The shortest Mishnah
 DAF DISCUSSIONS - SANHEDRIN 22
1. Joshua Danziger asks:

Hello kollel, and Chag sameach!

Sanhedrin 22 discusses whether the Torah was given in ksav ivrit and when it switched to ashuris and brings proofs from history including Daniel

My q is when we say "vzot hatorah" in shul when the Torah is lifted what do we mean if the Torah was originally in ksav ivrit. We pasul a Torah even for an extra letter, but then turn and say that this torah in ashuris is the same as one in ivris?

Follow on q, if the Torah was in ivris, how do we understand Moshe rabbeinu in r akiva classroom (menachos 29) darshaning the tagin, since ksav ivris doesn't have tagin.

Thank you!

Josh

2. The Kollel replies:

Hi Josh,

Thank you for your great and essential question. You are asking about a very complexed Gemara, and there are many different opinions how to understand the Gemara.

The Gemara you brought is the opinion of Rebi Yossi. There are Tanaa'im who disagree with Rebi Yossi's opinion, Rebi who says the Torah was given in Ashurit, later, because of Bnei Yisrael's sins, it was changed and the Torah was written in Ktav Ivri, and Ezra changed the Ktav back to Ashurit. Rebi eliezer's opinion is that the Ktav never changed and was always Ktav Ashurit. So, we can start off with your second question, with a technical answer. It could be possible that the Gemara in Menachos is according to these other Tanaaim.

I will try to bring the different ways the Rishonim understood Rebi Yossi.

a. It seems from Rashi, that he explains that Ktav Ashurit, is a Ktav that came to the world in the times of Daniel. By the way, in Tshuvas Rav Sherira Gaon (Tshuvas ha'Geonim [Harkavi] 358) he pretty much says what Rashi says too. See also Talmud Yerushalmi Megillah 1;9. It seems there too that Ktav Ashurit is a new font that was brought from the Galus, or somehow made its way into Judaism at some point.

b. The Ran adds an addition that sheds some light on Rashi's opinion. The Gemara brings the Posuk 'Mishne Torah', and is Doresh that the Ktav can change. Rashi says that Moshe 'hinted' here that the font can change. The Ran says clearly that Rebi Yossi learns his opinion from this Drasha. The torah is called Mishne Torah, and the word Mishne, can be also read and understood as a change. The Torah was given in way that to some extent (we must be careful with this one!!), it has options of built-in changes. Ezra understood that one of these changes can be the font of the letters. According to the Ran, this change is part of the Torah and was allowed only because of a Drasha found in the Torah itself. Maybe this is enough to say 've'Zos ha'Torah'. It is in place to add, that what the Ran says clearly, some say that Rav Shrira agrees. He seems to say that we can learn from 'Mishne Torah' that since Hash-m knew that Bnei Yisrael will go on long Goluyot, they are allowed to write or use the Ktav that they know or remember during these hard times. This is sort of a Heter to write the torah in a different font(r)

c. R' Yosef Elbo in his Sefer ha'Ikarim (chapter 3), brings another reason why Ezra changed the Ktav. He explains that he wanted us to remember the redemption from the Galus Bavel, so he used the Assyrian font so we shall never forget the miracle of the Geula.

d. There are those who sharply disagree and write very strongly against the reasoning of Sefer ha'Ikarim, mainly because there is no hint anywhere in Chazal enforcing this new reason. See Responsa of Maharm El'Shaker 74.

e. Some bring from a Teshuva of the Rambam, that there is no doubt that the Luchos and the first Sefer Torah were written in Ktav Ashurit, but it was permitted to write also using Ktav Ivri, and from Ezra and on, it was fixed that one cannot use Ktav Ivri anymore, and just use Ktav Ashurit. According to this opinion, Ezra just minimized the options, but did not establish anything new. The Mei'ri and the Ritva's opinion are also on these lines, although it is not clear in the Ritva if he means that ktav Ahurit was used only on the Luchos, but not to write the first Sefer torah (as found in drashot Ri ibm Shueb on Parashat Shlach Le'cha and in the Radvaz 3; 442), or rather the Sefer torah was written too using Ktav Ashuri. The Ritva brings a proof, believe it or not, from your second question and any other places Chazal mention the Tagim and all the details that are only found in Ktav Ahurit. See also the Maharal in Sefer Tiferes Yisrael 64.

f. The Brisker Rav in his Sefer in the Torah, brings a Rishon called Sefer ha'Tagin who has an outstanding Perush on the Gemara Menachos you brought, and an extremely original opinion regarding Rebi Yossi. He says that when Moshe when up to heaven, he saw Hash-m tying Tagim to the letters. He says that Hash-m tied these Tagim so later on, when Ezra writes them in the Torah, Rebi Akiva can make Drashas and learn 'Tilei Tilim Shel Halachos'. Moshe wanted to know, why is it that Hash-m does not want to give the Torah now in Ktav Ashurit, but Hash-m answered, 'Shtok' Ð keep silent, and did not explain. Moshe who saw how to write the Tagim, used Ktav Ashurit to write the torah on the stones, as brought down in Parashat va'Yelech, and later, Daniel knew the Ktav, and Ezra copied the tagim from the stones. This opinion, answers at least your second question!

These are the main opinions in the Gemaras you are asking to understand. I tried just to bring them down as-is, since these are 'Ikarei ha'Yahadus' and I do not want to dilute the information with my interpertations.

I hope this helps!

Kol Tuv,

Aharon Steiner