Does R'Yehoshua hold that mentioning rain is the same as asking for it, or does he hold like R'Eliezer that mentioning rain is l'Ratzos Lifnei She'eilah but unlike R'Eliezer, he doesn't want to start appeasing for rain on Succos, since rain is a Siman Kelalah and it appears just by mentioning anything to do with rain its as if we are asking for it to come on Succos? Also does R'Yehoshua agree with R'Eliezer that we take the 4 species on Succos to appease for rain? If he does hold that mentioning is appeasing and not the same as asking and he holds that the 4 species are taken to appease for rain, why should he be concerned? We see that taking the 4 species which has to do with rain does not look like we are asking for rain to come on Succos so too saying Morid Hageshem should also not look like we are asking for rain to come on Succos since both are appeasing for rain not asking for rain.
Ely, Florida, USA
1) R'Yehoshua agrees that mentioning rain is not like asking for it, but he holds that since Succos is not the right time for rain, it is also not correct to mention it then.
This is stated in the Gemara 2b (9 lines from the bottom of the page) where R'Yehoshua said that one does not always want rain. Rashi (DH Kol) writes that since this is not the right time for rain, one should not mention it either. Meiri adds that one does not mention something if there would be no blessing if one received it then. Even if it would not actually be a Siman Kelalah, but because one does not actually want it now, one keeps quiet.
Possibly we can compare this to someone undergoing a delicate negotiation process. He is bartering for a certain cause now, and he knows that at some later stage he will have to bid for a different cause that he does not want at the present moment. He would be very careful not to talk about the second issue because his opponent might hit back and offer this to him, and then he will be stuck.
2) R'Yehoshua can agree with R'Eliezer that we take the 4 species to appease for rain. However the difference is that we do not say explicitly that is why we are taking them. Taking the lulav etc. is only a hint that we want rain. The only thing that R'Yehoshua is opposed to is talking about what one does want at the moment but hinting that we want rain later on is acceptable.
Shabbat Shalom and wishing you a good Fast on Sunday.
Dovid Bloom