Rashi daf 18a on the first wide line
Says that "if you ask that day 8 is anyway ossur cos it's the day before 9 nissan and its ossur because of lefonov, that's not a question because the yomtov itself is botul so obviously we are not going to assur day 8 as the day before 9 like we see the gemoro says by 12 ador the day of turianus on 18b
But the gemoro there is totally different!
The gemoro says that they were mevatel the yomtov of 12 ador because shmaya and his brother was killed, so if we are making the day a non yomtov then obviously it will not be ossur because of the day before 13 ador. But in the case of the 8th nissan, we did not make the 8th of nissan a non yomtov only one of the other 7 days from rosh chodesh nissan till 7th nissan. See rashi before d"h hochi gorsinon. So just because we can't be mevatel a yomtov lechatzoin therefore we had to be mevatel the entire yomtov. But there's no sevoro that the 8th day of nissan should not be ossur for another reason I.e. the day before chago dishvuayo??
Avrumi Hersh, London england
Avrumi, Baruch She-Kivanta to the kashya of Rabbi Akiva Eiger!
He writes "May Hash-m light up my eyes in the holy words of our holy Rabbi, Rashi Z'l".
The explanation of the Ramban and the answer of the Sfas Emes:-
The Sfas Emes here gives an answer to this question and he cites support for his answer from the words of the Ramban in Milchemes Hash-m to Maseches Megilah 4a in the Rif pages, so firstly we will look at the Milchemes.
1) The Ramban discusses how we are allowed to fast on Ta'anis Ester on the 13th Adar, since this is the day before Purim, and one should not fast on the day before Purim?! He answers based on the Gemara Ta'anis 14b, that 13th Adar is Yom Nikanor and one was not allowed to fast on Yom Nikanor. The reason why originally one was not allowed to fast on Yom Nikanor was not because it was the day before Purim, but rather because we were saved from Nikanor. When, later on, Megilas Ta'anis was abolished, this meant that one of the dates that was abolished was Yom Nikanor; 13 Adar. It now became permitted to fast on 13 Adar. Chazal left it as it was, and did not impose a new issur to fast on 13 Adar because it is the day before Purim.
2) Ramban compares this to Taanis 14b where the Gemara asks that even though Yom Turainus was abolished why do we not say that one may not fast on 12 Adar because it is the day before Yom Nikanur?! Rav Ashi answered that since Yom Turainus itself was abolished it would not be logical to make a prohibition on fasting on 12 Adar merely because of Yom Nikanor. The Ramban writes that this would be a new Gezera and nowadays we do not institute new Yomim Tovim.
3) Sfas Emes writes that something similar happened concernng the days of Nisan. It started with the first 8 days being made into a Yomtov when the Tamid was establihed. Afterwards, when a new Yomtov was made from 8th Nisan onwards because of Chaga de Shavuya, a prohibition aganist fasting before these days was never made, since it was anyway forbidden to fast on 7th and 8th Nisan because of the Yomtov of the Tamid. When, later on, the Yomtov of the Tamid was abolished, a new Gezera was not made to prohibit fasting on the days before Chaga deShavuya, since we do not make new Chagim nowadays.
4) Sfas Emes writes that it may be that Rashi himself learnt this way and that he learnt the same way as the Ramban did in the Gemara 18b about Yom Turainus.
Explanation of how the above answers Rashi:
1) I think I should summarize how the explanation of the Rambam helps to understand Rashi. The question on Rashi was that 8th Nisan should be forbidden for fasting for 2 reasons (a) because it is one of the first 8 days of Nisan which are festive because of the Tamid (b) because it is the day before 9th Nisan and since Shavuos became properly established, the days from 9th Nisan until the end of Pesach were all declared as festive. How can Rashi compare this to 12 Adar which, once Shemaya and Achya were killed, lost all its essence of Yomtov so its closeness to 13 Adar cannot give it an essence of Yomtov? 8 Nisan is different because it should still remain a Yomtov since all the days after 7 Nisan are part of the celebration of Chaga deShavuya?!
2) The answer is that the Ramban says that we cannot now make new Yomim Tovim. When 8 Nisan was connected to the later days of Nisan it was not necessary to make it a Yomtov because of Chaga de Shavuya since it was already a Yomtov because of Tamida. Later on, when the first 7 days were abolished it followed that 8 Nisan also lost its place as a Yomtov. Even though it should still be a Yomtov as the day before 9th Nisan, this would be considered as making a Takanah to institute a new Yomtov, which we cannot do.
KOL TUV
Dovid Bloom
Thanks for the nice reply with the sefas emes.
However I don't understand why the Ramban would look at it as a 'new gezeira', in megilas taanis chazal made a general rule that the days before and / or days after ANY yom tov (rabonon of course) has certain laws, it doesn't seem that they had to be gozer it every time a yom tov was added.
Thanks for all your wonderful mails.
Git schabes,
M. Porgesz
Reb Moishy, thank you as always for your wonderful comments!
The Ramban writes that a new yom tov cannot be added nowadays. This is also the opinion of the Pri Chadash on Shulchan Aruch Orach Chaim siman 496 in Minhagei Issur #14. He writes that once Megilas Taanis was abolished it follows that we cannot add on a new yom tov. Pri Chadash writes that his opinion is opposed to that of Maharam Alshaker (cited by Magen Avraham 686:5) that a town can institute a new Purim on the day that a miracle happenedd to them (see also Teshuvas Chasam Sofer Yoreh Deah #233 DH Omnam and Teshuvas Shevet Halevi 3:89).
Yasher Koach
Dovid Bloom
Thank you very much.
I totally understand what you have said.
But I do not understand how the sfas Emes says that this answer will fit with rashi, because rashi says "this yomtov is botul, are we going to come and be gozer a new yomtov?" Clearly rashi held that we COULD invent another yomtov, but we WOULDNT because we were mevatel the yomtov itself so why would we add?
Rashi does not say that we could invent another yomtov. The Hava Amina in Rashi was only that we might make a new gezera (not to fast the day before the old yomtov) but not to make a new yomtov.
Yasher Koach Gadol
Dovid Bloom