1. When Rav Yosi says that "b'nos Yisroel somchos r'shus" smeicha b'nashim r'shus" , does he mean that it is "permissible" (though not required) and that women may perform the semicha "b'chol koach" OR that it really is not permitted BUT women were allowed to perform a "pseudo" semicha -- i.e., by merely touching the animal lightly -- as the end of the gemorah seems to come out?

2. If the latter, then how does Rabbeinu Tam in RH 33a, and Rabbeinu Yitzchak in the Tosfos on the daf, bring proof from this gemaroh that women can also perform mitzvos aseh sh'hazman grama even though they are not obligated: here the gemorah indicates that they really cannot (i.e., the semicha they can perform is not a "real" one!). [I believe the Meiri indicates that only by semicha would there be a different maaseh for women than men because if semicha bechol kocho is allowed, it would look like avodah b'kodshim and thus a zilzul. However, are there other answers -- after all, why should this be considerd a zilzul if the women simply are doing the same type of semicha that men do?]

3. What is meant by "kedai laasos nachas ruach l'nashim" and what was that principle "matir" at the end -- is nachas ruach l'nashim what allows women to perform mitzvot aseh sh'hazman grama, OR isn't it that the Torah itself allows them to do so like men BUT ALSO provides a "p'tur" for them making them not obligated to do so? [The latter is brought down as the shitas haRavad.]

4. Finally, although Artscroll and Soncino translate the words "d'ainah l'smeicha klal" and "d'laisah l'smeicha klal" to refer to the maaseh (action) of the women in doing semicha lightly, is it possible to translate at least "d'laisah l'smeicha klal" to mean that women are not obligated to do semicha at all but that they are PERMITTED to do so BUT are not OBLIGATED, and thus even though a real semicha might have otherwise been banned by Chachamim because it would look like an avodah b'kodshim, they [chazal] did not do so because of nachas ruach for women? If this p'shat is said by someone -- or can be said -- that woud leave the conclusion of the gemorah that indeed semicha b'chol kocho was performed and then Rabbeinu Tam and Rabbeinu Yitzchak would have a good proof from the gemorah that women are allowed to perform mitzvos aseh sh'hazman grama in the same fashion as men. [Presumably this would also fit with Rashi's shitah in Chulin 85a and RH 33a that women indeed were

allowed to do semicha with kol koachan.]

Your assistance in offering a straight forward p'shat on this difficult sugya would be much appreciated. Thank you in advance for your help.

- In partial answers to the questions I submitted to the Kollel regarding Chagiga 16b, see also Meiri on the daf; the Raavad on (Vayikra) Safra perk beis os beis; the Kovitz Shiurim on Kiddushin ( os 143); Igros Moshe O'C 2 siman 2 ; Shu't Shevet Lev chelk 9, siman 2; Sefer Or Avrohom on Vayikra - on the second pasuk [the first two p'shatim in the sefer]; and sefer Orach Yisroel at the end in the chelek called "Hemsech lamiluim alef, l'siman yud beis."

In particular, the Kovetz Shiurim says that Rabbeinu Tam is like the the Raavad in the Safra, which at least conceptually -- but not lingustically in terms of the loshon of the gemara -- answers my question on the tosfos on the daf and in RH 33, whereas the shu't Shevet Levi disagrees.

- One additional point came out when I first gave a shiur on the sugya: perhaps it is Chachamim who determine what "semicha" really is as the Torah does not clearly define the term. Accordingly, Chazal can determine that a semicha that is not kol kocho still is a good semicha.

[The only source for why semicha is defined as kol kocho that I have so far found (although I have not looked hard yet) is the Haamaik Davar on the pasuk "vesamach yado" - ayein sham.]

A similar concept to the above suggestion that I could think of is the definition of "einui" on YK as to which Chazal define einui in terms of the five einuyim which still are considered d'oraysa.

I would be interested in the Kollel's take on this, too.

One last source that I found since the shiur -- see the Haamek Sheailah on parshas P'kudei (67, at the end of siman katan gimel) which relates to/explains the raayah from the gemara in Chagigah for Tosfos' shitah that women may recite a bracha for a m'ash'zg. The N'tziv explains that even according to the Rambam, it is not a bracha l'vatalah for women to recite such br'chos because Chazal made an allowance based on giving women "nachas ruach", similar to the nachas ruach given them in connection with (a perhaps less than full) semicha. Ayein sham.

- [I have now seen shitos indicating that according to Rabbeinu Tam in RH and Tosfos in Chagiga, that the semicha for the women was not b'col kocho - though I stil find that difficult according to them based on their holding that the gemorah is a proof for women being allowed to perform mitzvos aseh sehahzman grama.]

In any case, I am scheduled to give a shiur on this gemorah this coming Simchas Torah. If you can give me any assistance before then even in a brief or cursory way [especially if you are aware of anyone who interprets the end of the gemorah as I suggested, i.e., that the gemorah is NOT refering to the way the semicha was done burt rather to how the Torah viewed women and semiccha -- that they are not obligated in but still may perform it and that there is no problem of avodah bakodshim because of nachas ruach] I would appreciate it.

Looking forward to your replies.

All the best. YK