Rashi at the bottom of 15a says that there are certain tumos which need a korbon for there kaporo including "(the 4 mechusrey kaporo, namely) zov zovoh yoledes and metzora and NOZIR TOMEY". Why does Rashi mention nozir tomey, we know the mishna says there are only 4 mechusrey kaporo. We know a nozir doesn't need the korbon for taharo and he is mitar to eat kodshim and all Diney tumah from the moment of hazooh and tevila??!!
Avrumi hersh, London england
1) Rashi (the Mefaresh) to Nazir 45a (DH H"G l'Olam) also writes that a Nazir is Mechusar Kepurim, and Shi'urei Rav Meshulam Dovid ha'Levi Soloveitchik zt'l there asks that a Nazir is not Mechusar Kepurim, as you asked, Avrumi, and he remains with "Tzarich Iyun."
2) It seems that Rashi to Sotah 15a and Nazir 45a follows the text of the Hagahos ha'Bach on the Gemara in Kerisus 26a. The Gemara there states: "When a Nazir brings a Korban, he brings so that he will become Mutar to eat Kodshim."
3) The Ri Migash writes that the Korban that the Nazir brings is for Taharah:
I found, bs'd, that the Chidushei Ri Migash (Shevuos 37a, DH Ha d'Amrinan ha'Hu d'Maisi) writes that the only reason that the Nazir brings the Korban is in order to receive Taharah from his Tum'ah so that he can start re-counting pure Nezirus. The Ri Migash writes that we find that the Korban that the Tamei person brings is in order that he should become Tahor. He proves this from the fact that before he brought the Korban, he was not allowed to eat Kodesh, as Yevamos 74b states (concerning general cases of Mechusarei Kaparah: "When he brings his Kaparah he may now eat Kodshim"). The Ri Migash writes that we see from this that the Korban makes Taharah.
4) We find that there are three definitions of Mechusrei Kaparah:
a) It is true that the Tana Kama in the Mishnah (Kerisus 8b) states that there are four Mechusrei Kaparah. However, Rebbi Eliezer ben Yakov there disagrees and maintains that a Nazir is also considered a Mechusar Kaparah because he needs to bring his Korbanos so that he can drink wine, shave, and touch dead bodies. According to Rebbi Eliezer ben Yakov there are five Mechusrei Kaparah -- the fifth is a Nazir -- but Mechusrei Kaparah does not necessarily mean that he needs the Korbanos in order to be able to eat Kodshim; rather, the need for Korbanos in order to relax the standard restrictions of Nazir is also a sufficient reason to be described as Mechusrei Kaparah.
b) Tosfos (Nazir 55b, DH Ochel) is at the other extreme. Tosfos writes that a Nazir as such does not require the Korbanos in order to permit him to eat Kodshim, because one is not considered as Mechusar Kaparah unless Tum'ah emerges from the body. Therefore, a Metzora, Zav, Zavah, and Yoledes are Mechusrei Kaparah, but a Nazir is not.
c) Rashi (Sotah 15a, DH v'Chi Ka, and Nazir 45a, DH H'G l'Olam) and the Ri Migash (Shevuos 37a, DH Ha d'Amrinan) could be described as a middle Shitah. It is only called Mechusrei Kaparah if the Korbanos are required in order to give a Heter to eat Kodshim, but a Nazir also requires Korbanos in order to obtain a Heter to eat Kodshim.
Dovid Bloom
Regarding the mare mekomos you mention, that a nozir tomey is Takeh not allowed to eat kodshim.
How can we explain the gemoro on nozir 60a which clearly states that a sofel nozir tomey sofek metzora can eat kodshim after 60 days (or 2 years) because he is definitely no longer a metzora. Even though he is still nozir tomey misofek (hence he has to wait another 60 days till he's finished)?! So you clearly see a nozir tomey is allowed to eat kodshim...
I think we have to say that in that Gemara he is only allowed to eat kodashim after he has brought the korbanos of a Nazir.
KOL TUV
Dovid Bloom
Follow-up reply:
1) See Mishnah Nazir 59b that one can bring a korban nozir tomey out of sofek, so this strengthens my above answer.
2) Avrumi, it is true that the Bartenura Nazir 8:2 [who is going on the Sugya that you cite] writes what you argue; that because of sofek nozir tomey he is not prohibited to eat kodashim. However the Bartenura is following Tosfos Nazir 55b DH Ochel that one is only considered Mechusar Kipurim if the tumah emerges from his body, whilst Rashi Nazir 45a DH H'G L'Olam, Rashi Sotah 15a DH v'Ki Ka and Rashi Shevuos 17a DH Tzarich Shehiyah disagree with Tosfos, so according to Rashi we will have to say that he must bring the korbonos nozir in order to get a heter to eat kodashim.
Dovid Bloom
I don't think I understand your answer.
-The gemoro is discussing a sofek metzora sofek nozir tomey.
-The gemoro says that he is mutar to eat kodshim on his 60th day after his 2nd taglachas.
-On the tzad, that he is a metzora. He is not allowed to bring any korbonos nozir tomey yet. His chatos is buried. Meaning he is still a sofek nozir tomey.
-So why is allowed to eat kodshim??
He is a sofek mechusar kippurim (nozir), just like he was a sofek (metzora) mechusar kippurim 60 Days ago? We don't allow him to eat kodshim as long as he is not vadai brought his kaporo yet...
-Until 90 days and 3 taglachas have passed, he is still sofek mechusar kaporo??
On the tzad that he is a metzora he can bring his korbonos nozir before Day 60, and then after Day 60 he can eat kodashim (see Talmud Yerushalmi here that one can bring the korbonos with a tnai).
Yasher Koach
Dovid Bloom
So according to this yerushalmi why wait 120 days. Just wait 90 days and bring the korbon tumah with the tenai before the end of metzora?
See the Mefaresh Nazir 56a DH Ochel who explains why he has to wait 120 days.
When he gets to Day 60 and wants to drink wine they say to him "All along you were really a Metzora Muchlat and not a Tomei so the 2 haircuts that you took were haircuts of a Metzora and now you must start counting Nezirus". So he counts 30 days and on Day 90 takes a haircut. After this he wants to drink wine but they say to him "Maybe all along you were a Muchlat and a Tomei. If so the first 2 haircuts were as a Metzora and the third haircut was that of a Nozir Tomei at the end of his Tumah". So he now starts counting 30 days of a Nozir Tohor and reaches 120. He needs to wait till Day 120 so that he can drink wine and touch corpses. For that he requires the last 30 of the 120 days.
Good Pesach Sheni and Good Shabbos
Dovid Bloom
An answer based on saying that it is a Machlokes Tanaim if a Nozir Tomei is Mechusar Kipurim:-
I found, bs'd, a different answer to the question from 60a, in the sefer Ateres Nozir; on Maseches Nozir; by Rav Ze'ev Ari Strom, Shlita.
1) He comments (page 378) on Tosfos Nazir 55b DH Ochel, who writes that Mechusar Kipurim only applies to someone who has Tumah emerging from his body; so Nozir Tomei is not Mechusar Kipurim according to Tosfos. However he then cites the Mefaresh to Nazir 45a (that we have mentioned a few times before) that a Nozir Tomei is a Mechusar Kipurim and is not allowed to enter the Machaneh Leviyah until he brings his korbonos. Ateres Nozir writes that, if so, it follows that according to the Mefaresh, a Nozir Tomei is not allowed to eat kodashim until he brings his korbanos, so how in the Mishnah Nazir 59b (also cited by the Gemara Nazir 55b) is the Nazir allowed to eat korbanos after 60 days; he should have to wait 90 days?!
Ateres Nozir answers that the Mefaresh 45a is following the opinion of the Friends of Rav Nosson bar Hoshiya cited in Nazir 44b. Ateres Nazir refers us to what he wrote above 45a (page 285 DH v'Tz'L). Tosfos 44b DH Alma writes that the Friends held like the Tana of the Mishnah on 44b, so we have found a Tana that the Mefaresh 45a follows. That Tana holds that one needs Me'urav Shemesh. That means that a Tvul Yom is not allowed to enter the Machaneh Leviyah. Abaye said (4 lines from the bottom of 44b) that if so a Nazir should also be also be forbidden to enter the Machaneh Leviyah.
2) The Mishnah Nazir 59b does not hold of the Friends of Rav Nosson, so this answers why it says that after 60 days the Nazir can eat kodashim, whilst according to the Friends 90 days are required. And the Friends also do not hold of the Mishnah Kerisus 8b [so the question of Kehilas Yaakov Nazir #4 on Rashi Sotah 15a and the Mefaresh Nazir 45a is answered because the latter 2 sources hold like the Friends - DB]
3) In a different answer I suggested that Rabbi Eliezer HaKapar in Sotah 15a, Kerisus 26a and elsewhere, also does not agree with Mishnah Kerisus 8b. So we now have 2 Tanaim who hold that a Nazir Tomei is a Mechusar Kipurim and cannot eat kodashim before he brings his korbanos.
Yasher Koach Godol
Dovid Bloom