More Discussions for this daf
1. The face of the Cherub 2. A brilliant child 3. Sifsei Chachamim cited in the Insights
4. Teaching non-Jews Torah 5. A gentile learning Torah 6. Raki'a
7. מרחק שמים לארץ
DAF DISCUSSIONS - CHAGIGAH 13

Sidney Dubin asked:

The gemara asks that after Yechezkal prayed for mercy and the face of the ox on the throne was changed to that of cherub is not the same as a man? The answer is that is adult this is child. I do not understand what the gemara is adding to my knowledge. Rashi already explained it is a child.

The Kollel replies:

The question is really on Rashi -- why does he explain that a Cherub is the face of an adult, when the Gemara itself is about to explain it?

It seems that Rashi is hinting to us what the Gemara's question really was. It was not that the Gemara thought that both faces are identical. The Gemara knew that one is the face of an adult, and one of a Tinok (child). Rather, the Gemara's question was that they are faces of the same type of creature -- human faces. The Hava Amina of the Gemara is that there is no intrinsic difference between a face of the old or a face of the young upon the throne, both represent the same thing. The Gemara answers that indeed, the face of a child is intrinsically different than that of an adult. (We will not go into the deeper meanings of what is represented by the face of an adult versus what is represented by that of a child.)

All the best,

Y. Shaw

Yitzchak Zirkind comments:

IMHO there is no Taanoh on Rashi as he is simply Teitching the words of the

Gemara "Kravyoh...L'ynuka", it is self understood from the Possuk Pnei Hakruv

that it means the face of a child, (the Loshon of the Shoeil needs IMHO

correction as we can't ask from Rashi on the Gemara, the question should have

been posed as what is the Gemara adding to what it already said that Kruv =

Yenuka).

-See Hagohas HaBa"Ch in the answer "Chad Hu" This Girso is also in the Ein

Yaakov, however in Sukka 5b it says like in our P'nim, (and see Rashi V'chi

Loi Echod Hein).

While there most definitely is a symbolic difference - Bnosof to your

beautiful reference to Rashi where it is talking Mitzad HKBH the Mforshim

also explain that it is Mitzad the Yidden that he wanted to invoke the Chesed

"Ne'urayich", Ki "Naar" Yisroel, etc., MaHaRShA says it resembles Yitzchok,

(perhaps to invoke Zchus Hoakeida, Al Tishlach Yodcha El "Ha'nar")

There is also the difference in size (which is Nogeia in the sugia Sukka), However the Loshon of Rashi (vs. his Loshon in Sukka) Pnei Godol vs. Ponim Godol (Gdolim), indicates a difference in appearance in addition to size (see

MaHaRShA).

Kol Tuv

Yitzchok Zirkind