Hi, id like to know if my understanding is correct, please.
As for Rashi in the sugya (Rashi ktav yad included), we have that melacha of davar haaved in the aveilus time is permited if done by others, as we see in the case of zetav hafuchin. If it is not a melacha of davar aved, it is not permissible at all.
The kula given by the gemara in daf 19b, in the case of a met who died two days before yom tov, the kula given by Rashi ktav yad over there is that even a melacha of not davar aved may be done in that period, also by others.
If so, what is different the case of zetav hafuchin and "hayta melachto beyad acherim, osin betoch bateihen aval lo betoch beito", why is that so? Even zetav hafuchin mistama we are saying that it is on the avels property; although not his home, but his "firm" or company of olive pressing!
As for tosfot, we have in the sugya on daf 19b, that the braita on 11b when says of hayta melachto beyad acherim is dealing on a no davar haaved melacha, because davar haaved melacha may be done even at his property/home. It is good for tosfot why zetav hafuchin is the same case of hayta melachto beyad acherim. But what is the kula given for a case where the guy died two days before the yom tov aliba detosfot??
Thank you very much
Joseph Kayeri, Sao Paulo
1)
a) The Gemara on 19b is discussing a different scenario than the one on 11b. On 19b, he buried the deceased relative two days before Yom Tov. On Yom Tov he does not openly practice Aveilus, but after Yom Tov he keeps another five days of Aveilus to make it up to a total of seven.
(It seems that the Halachah does not follow the Gemara at the end of 19b, since the Mishnah on 19a states that if the deceased was buried three days before Yom Tov, the Shivah is cancelled. Rashi on 19a writes that after Yom Tov he does not need to count any more. This is not like the end of 19b that after Yom Tov he counts five more days. The source of 19b is a Tosefta, which can disagree with the Mishnah, but the Halachah is that "Regel Mevatel Shivah" -- Yom Tov cancels the seven-day mourning period.)
b) I saw on Otzar ha'Chochmah, Perush Rashi l'Maseches Moed Katan (which may be what you refer to as "Rashi Ktav Yad," Joseph), and on 19b it reads (according to the text change given in the notes at the bottom): "And his work may be done by others -- in those five days which are not as severe as if they would have been immediately after the burial. This is not the same as if this would be in the days of full-fledged mourning, as we said above that one may only do Davar ha'Aved in the days of his mourning, for instance, Zeitav Hafuchin, etc."
c) The point is that the Gemara on 19b is discussing days of Avelus which are only of secondary importance because Yom Tov came in the meantime. A significant amount of time has passed between the burial and the mourning. Therefore, even though according to the Tosefta the mourner himself cannot work, others may work for him, even though this does not involve a loss. In contrast, Zeitav Hafuchin involves a loss, so if necessary it may be done on his premises.
d) An example of "Hayesah Mekachto b'Yad Acherim" might be that he owns a clothing company and gives work to people to do in their own houses. The Rema (Shulchan Aruch YD 380:18) writes that the Heter applies only if he gave them the work before he became an Avel. The people who make the clothes for him work in their home, and it is probably not well known that they are doing work for the mourner, so this is permitted even though no loss is involved.
2) Here is an answer to the question on the last Tosfos on 19b:
a) Joseph, Baruch she'Kivanta to the question of Rebbi Akiva Eiger in the Gilyon ha'Shas here!
The Gilyon ha'Shas asks on Tosfos that here we are lenient only after seven days from the beginning of mourning have finished. It seems that the Gilyon ha'Shas is asking that since in our Gemara a full seven days have passed since the beginning of Avelus, this means that we should be more lenient than in the first seven days of Avelus, so why does Tosfos give the same Din for the first seven days as for the later days? Rebbi Akiva Eiger concludes with "Tzarich Iyun Gadol" -- this question requires a great amount of research in order to answer it!
Whenever Rebbi Akiva Eiger writes "Tzarich Iyun Gadol," this tells us that it is not at all easy to answer the question correctly!
b) I found that Yalkut ha'Me'iri gives a possible answer based on Rashi 11b, DH b'Beiso (five lines from the end of the page). Rashi writes there that the reason why others may not do his work for him in his house is that people may come to suspect the mourner and say that he himself is helping them to do the work.
c) The Yalkut ha'Me'iri writes that it may be that Tosfos on 19b agrees with Rashi on 11b. In addition, Tosfos maintains that if the problem is the suspicion of others, then we will not be more lenient after the seven days are finished than before they are finished. Yalkut ha'Me'iri writes that, on the contrary, if the problem is that others are suspicious then there is actually more reason to be careful about this after the end of seven days than before. The reason is that onlookers might think that the mourner takes a lighter attitude towards the whole issue, since he has completed the seven days. Therefore, he really might help others with the work in his house. This is why Tosfos writes that even after the seven days we give a Heter to do the work in his house only if a financial loss is involved.
d) According to this, the answer to Rebbi Akiva Eiger's question may be that we are not actually more lenient after the seven days have finished, because -- when suspicion is involved -- we have to be just as concerned even though the prohibition that others might think he is doing is actually a lighter one, since, on the contrary, people think that he does not take this prohibition seriously.
Chodesh Tov,
Dovid Bloom