More Discussions for this daf
1. Waiting between meat and milk 2. Rambam on Milk and Meat 3. Hadachah and Kinuach- Halachah Outlines
4. Mayim Acharonim 5. Kishuf 6. Chulin 105a: Waiting between meat and milk
7. Waiting between meat and milk 8. Waiting between milk and meat 9. Insights to the Daf -- Using The Holy Name
10. WASHING 11. Measuring Salt 12. Eating Meat After Eating Cheese
13. מים מאוסים המקלחים... 14. גבינה מקיבת גמל
DAF DISCUSSIONS - CHULIN 105

Tzvi Ziskind asked:

Regarding #7 "Uttering the Holy name"

>>7) USING THE HOLY NAME

OPINIONS: Rav Chisda and Rabah bar Rav Huna said "something" in order to undo the witchcraft of the woman who cast a spell on their ship. What was it that they said?

RASHI (DH Amrei) offers two explanations: they either countered her spell by using their knowledge of witchcraft, or they uttered the Holy Name of Hash-m.

With regard to the second possibility, Rashi comments, "it cannot be proven" ("v'Lo Muchecha Milsa"; see ROSH YOSEF). It seems from Rashi as though the second suggestion is unlikely and needs support. Why is that?<<

i understood rashi differently. Not that the second pshat needs backing, but RASHI understood the reason of the second pshat was based on the problem with the first pshat of how was it permitted for these AMORAIM to use "KISHUF" ? Therefore, the second pshat in RASHI says they used the SHEM. And on this RASHI comments it's not "MUCHRACH" because to save themselves they were allowed to use "KISHUF" so the first pshat is OK.

Tzvi Ziskind

Spring Valley, NY

The Kollel replies:

I think that Rashi is stating that there is no clear proof either way, as the Gemara is using oblique language so we cannot know for certain what it means to say. However, it is possible that Rashi prefers the first Peshat since it is logical that they would use witchcraft to undo other witchcraft, and we find similarly in Yerushalmi Sanhedrin (7:13) that Rebbi Eliezer and Rebbi Yehoshua countered witchcraft with similar actions. So it is definitely permitted to use some means to counter witchcraft, whereas using G-d's name is problematic for such purposes.

It seems that there were variant views among the Amora'im about the efficacy of witchcraft against Talmidei Chachamim; see Chulin 7b where the matter is disputed by Rebbi Chanina and Rebbi Yochanan.

Yoel Domb