More Discussions for this daf
1. Later generations arguing with the Gemara 2. Berachah on food while walking 3. Shinui Makom
4. Rashbam HG Tanu Rabanan 5. Wine for Se'udah Shlishis and Havdalah 6. ha'Tov v'ha'Meitiv Contradiction?
DAF DISCUSSIONS - PESACHIM 102

Matthew Wieder asked:

1) Concerning a case where someone eats mezonos in one place and changes to a seconds place, we seem to pasken (quoted in 'Halachos of Brachos' and VeZot Habracha) that because mezonos might require a bracha in its place, we don't require a new bracha before the person continues eating mezonos in the new location. However, why is this not a Sfeik Sfeika Lechayeiv? Firstly, we have a sfeika ledina whether halacha is like Rav Chisda or Rav Sheshet (SA 178 and 184). Even if the halcha is like Rav Chisda, we still don't know whether mezonos requires a bracha in place or not. Isn't this similair to one counting during the day on Sefirat Ha'omer where we let him continue with a bracha fetrwards since it is a sefiek sefeika lechayeiv?

2) on 102. The Gemarrah brings Tanya Kavatei Derav Chisda and discusses how wine is not subect to shinui makom. Since this seems to prove that wine is in the category of things which require a bracha achrona in place, the Shitot which hold that it is not in that category (Tos, Rabbeinu Chananel) must explain this. The paralel girsa (brought in the Rosh) has Tanya Kavatei Derbi Yochanon, but many are bothered by this since we have already rejeccted Rebi Yochanon. To answer the Ba'al Hameor says we just remove this whole section from the Shas, but the RaCH has just Tanya (without the kavatei). According to the RaCH, isn't there still the problem of supporting Rabbi Yochanon's shita? Namely, we rejected him before since we had a Stam that disagreed with him, but with the RaCH's girsa, we have a Stam which supports him, so doesn't that save him from the Teyuvta?

kol tuv,

Matthew Wieder, Philadelphia, USA

The Kollel replies:

1) In general, we do not say the rule of Sfeik Sfeika l'Chayev by "Birkas ha'Nehnin," and instead revert to the rule of Safek Berachos l'Hakel. Even the application of this rule by Birkas ha'Mitzvos is disputed (see Teshuvos Ateres Paz vol. 1, Kerach 2 Y.D. 19 who writes at length that we should always say Safek Berachos l'Hakel even by Birkas ha'Mitzvos).

2) This Beraisa indeed answers the question on Rebbi Yochanan. It is possible that the Rach holds that while the Gemara will not say outright that we are rectifying a Tiyuvta (and therefore will not say "Kavasey d'Rebbi Yochanan"), it will sometimes rely on a later Beraisa in order to support an opinion originally thought to be difficult. This is not difficult in principle, as the Bnei ha'Yeshivah originally didn't know the Beraisa (see Tosfos Rid, Milo ha'Ro'im).

All the best,

Yaakov Montrose