More Discussions for this daf
1. Rebbi Eliezer Ben Shimon in attic 2. A remarkable dimension in Agadah 3. Chazal who were Obese?
4. Rebbi Eliezer b'Rebbi Shimon's burial 5. זכר נקבה נדה גימטריה 6. זכר נקבה נדה גימטריה
7. הוה קא סחי ר' יוחנן בירדנא 8. לא פחות מתמני סרי
DAF DISCUSSIONS - BAVA METZIA 84

Chaim Marenberg asked:

On Shabbes i had access to the tractate of Mo'ed Katan of Artscroll translation , and i encounter with a commentarist citing the case of R' Elazar ben R' Shimon, that after he left "his" body, he said to his wife, that the body must be left on the attic of his house and indeed it was there between 18 and 22 years.

My question is, is this case an aggadah? Or was he actually there for 22 years? If he was actually lying dead in the attic, how could he propose that to his wife? And how could his wife accept his request? We know that in the worst of the cases when a person was sentenced to die by the court (See Devarim 21:22), and Devarim 21:23 "Lo talin niblato a'l a'etz ki kavor tikbrenu BAYOM ahu ki kilelat Elokim taluy belo tetame admatecha asher Havaya Elokecha noten lecha nachala", how much more care should people take with a great sage, that was a tzadik. Shouldn't he be buried on the same day? How could he propose something different to what is written on the Torah?to be buried on the same day.

Our sages also discuss of someone who died on Iom Tov sheni, what to do with the body... (See Beitzah 6). Maybe the issues are related? i don't know.

Kol Tuv

Chaim, Argentina

The Kollel replies:

Your question is asked by the Maharsha Bava Metzia 84b DH Ognin.

(1) His first answer is based on the Gemara Sanhedrin 46b which poses the question whether the reason that the Torah commands us to bury the dead is because of (a) the disgrace ("Bizyona") of the decased or (b) because of "Kaparah" - to give an atonement for the dead?

The Maharsha explains that according to both (a) and (b) R' Elazar ben R' Shimon did not require kevura. R' Elazar was sure from experience that he would not come to bizyona because the Gemara above Bava Metzia end 83b relates that the worms could not eat his flesh. In addition he did not need Kapara because the suffering that the Gemara just told us that he withstood, had already atoned for all his aveirot.

[It should not be noted though, that eventually when the Rabbis saw that it was not in the honor of R' Elazar that he was not being buried, they decided that he must be buried, and one can say that otherwise they felt that he would come to "bizyona".]

(2) Maharsha also answers that it was not necessary for R' Elazar to be buried on the day of his death because the Mishnah Sanhedrin 46a states that one is permitted not to bury the "meit" on the same day if this is done for the sake of his honor. In this case R' Elazar knew that the Rabbis would not treat him with the appropriate honor - as he said to his wife - consequently it was permitted to delay his burial. He knew that by delaying his burial now, this would mean that later on, after 18 years or more, he would eventually merit the kevura which was appropriate for him.

(3) We learn from the above that it was precisely because R' Elazar was such a big Tzadik, that it was not necessary to bury him straight after he died. In contrast immediate burial is certainly compulsary for everyone else, and the Halachot that you cite concerning burying on Yomtov sheni etc. , apply to all of Klal Yisrael.

(4) R' Elazar told his wife when he was dying, not after he died, to bury him in the attic.

(5) By the way, R' Elazar was not the only Rabbi in the Gemara whose body remained intact after he died .See the Gemara Shabbos 152b which relates how they dug around the grave of Rav Achai bar Yoshia and he spoke to Rav Nachman. He told him that Mishlei 14:30 "The decay of the bones is from jealousy" teaches us that if someone never was jealous of others when he was alive, then his body does not disintegrate after he dies.

KOL TUV

Dovid Bloom