A few months ago, Rabbi Yaakov Avraham Aryeh sent in a similar question to yours on a Gemara in Berachos 44a that describes how the Amoraim ate so many of the fruits of Ginosar. I am sending on to you the answer that I sent to him which may also throw light on the Gemara in Bava Metzia that you have cited.

I cited there, in part (e) of my answer, the Sidur Beis Yaakov by Rabbi Yaakov Emden, and I have looked this up again and I see that he does cite your Gemara as one of the examples of the eating habits of the Tanaim and Amoraim. What R. Yaakov Emden is basically saying is that eating is also part of the service of Hash-m, by raising up the physical world and utilizing it to reach spiritual heights. We can add on what the verse in Mishlei (3:6) says: "Know Hash-m in all your ways", which teaches us that even mundane physical activities can also be a way of knowing Hash-m.

May we be zocheh to the building of the Beis Hamikdash and the coming of the Mashiach Bekarov Beyameinu

Dovid Bloom

(1) You have cited Berachos 13b that because R. Yochanan was obese, he was unable to lie on his side.

What I am going to write now may possibly raise more questions than it answers, but firstly I should say that I think it is difficult for us to understand the eating habits of Chazal, but at least if we look at one or 2 Gemaras, we may get a slightly better idea on the subject.

(2) Possibly - and I am saying this merely as a conjecture - one of the reasons that R. Yochanan was large was because of the Ginosar fruits. Gemara Berachos 44a reports that Rabba bar bar Chanah (a student of R. Yochanan) said that when they went after R. Yochanan to eat the fruits of Ginosar, if there were 100 in the group, each one would receive 10, and if there were 10 in the group, each one would receive 100. After they had finished eating, they could have sworn that they had not eaten anything sustaining.

(3) Possibly this can be compared to the Gemara in Megilah 7b that Abaye said [however Maharsha writes that he said this in a joking way] that when he left the house of his master (Rabbah - see Rashi DH Ki). he was satisfied after eating. When he reached the house of his teacher, they would give him 60 plates of food, and he still had room for more. Abaye gave 2 explanations for this

(a) a poor person can be hungry and he does not know what from

(b) if one eats sweet dishes there is always room left in the stomach for more.

(4) I saw in Teshuvos Igros Moshe CM 2:65 DH Aval (as part of a discussion whether one is allowed to go on a diet that makes one very slim) that he cites this Gemara as an example that there are certain good foods which leave you hungry afterwards even if you eat a lot.

(5) It seems that there was something special about some of the food in the time of Chazal that required one to eat a lot in order to become satisfied. In my personal opinion, Chazal put such a tremendous effort into studying Torah that they simply had to eat a lot to give them the strength to go further. Also, in the answer that I sent you on last time, that I wrote a few months ago, I cited Gemara Nidah end 24b which shows us that the great scholars in those times were physical as well as spiritual and intellectual giants (it is logical that these 3 qualities are connected up). See also Shabbos 33a that Rava said "I know that Nachmani (i.e. Abaye, the same Abaye we mentioned above from Megilah 7b) makes himself hungry". Rashi comments that one sees from this that Rava maintained that it is a bad thing for a person to make himself hungry. I understand this to mean that Rava was saying that in order for a person to be able to put all his energy into learning Torah, he must eat well.

(6) In summary, my suggestion is that Chazal were very different kinds of people than we know nowadays. They reached higher achievements than we do, and in order to do this they needed greater strength.

KOL TUV

Dovid Bloom

(1) You have cited Berachos 13b that because R. Yochanan was obese, he was unable to lie on his side.

What I am going to write now may possibly raise more questions than it answers, but firstly I should say that I think it is difficult for us to understand the eating habits of Chazal, but at least if we look at one or 2 Gemaras, we may get a slightly better idea on the subject.

(2) Possibly - and I am saying this merely as a conjecture - one of the reasons that R. Yochanan was large was because of the Ginosar fruits. Gemara Berachos 44a reports that Rabba bar bar Chanah (a student of R. Yochanan) said that when they went after R. Yochanan to eat the fruits of Ginosar, if there were 100 in the group, each one would receive 10, and if there were 10 in the group, each one would receive 100. After they had finished eating, they could have sworn that they had not eaten anything sustaining.

(3) Possibly this can be compared to the Gemara in Megilah 7b that Abaye said [however Maharsha writes that he said this in a joking way] that when he left the house of his master (Rabbah - see Rashi DH Ki). he was satisfied after eating. When he reached the house of his teacher, they would give him 60 plates of food, and he still had room for more. Abaye gave 2 explanations for this

(a) a poor person can be hungry and he does not know what from

(b) if one eats sweet dishes there is always room left in the stomach for more.

(4) I saw in Teshuvos Igros Moshe CM 2:65 DH Aval (as part of a discussion whether one is allowed to go on a diet that makes one very slim) that he cites this Gemara as an example that there are certain good foods which leave you hungry afterwards even if you eat a lot.

(5) It seems that there was something special about some of the food in the time of Chazal that required one to eat a lot in order to become satisfied. In my personal opinion, Chazal put such a tremendous effort into studying Torah that they simply had to eat a lot to give them the strength to go further. Also, in the answer that I sent you on last time, that I wrote a few months ago, I cited Gemara Nidah end 24b which shows us that the great scholars in those times were physical as well as spiritual and intellectual giants (it is logical that these 3 qualities are connected up). See also Shabbos 33a that Rava said "I know that Nachmani (i.e. Abaye, the same Abaye we mentioned above from Megilah 7b) makes himself hungry". Rashi comments that one sees from this that Rava maintained that it is a bad thing for a person to make himself hungry. I understand this to mean that Rava was saying that in order for a person to be able to put all his energy into learning Torah, he must eat well.

(6) In summary, my suggestion is that Chazal were very different kinds of people than we know nowadays. They reached higher achievements than we do, and in order to do this they needed greater strength.

I asked one of the Gedolim how is it that we sometimes find that Chazal ate remarkable amounts of food and I sharpened my question slightly by citing the Gemara Chulin 86a that R. Chanina ben Dosa survived on a kav of carobs all week long, which suggests that it is a virtue not to eat much food, thereby minimizing the physical world. He answered that the Sages who ate a lot, did so because they needed this for their good health.

Before trying to understand in practical terms how what seems to us to be very excessive eating can be considered healthy, I think that this answer can at least put us somewhat at ease. This is because probably what disturbs us about these accounts in the Gemara, is that it seems that Chazal were not health-conscious, but this answer is telling us that on the contrary the guiding line of Chazal was actually to preserve their health.

Now I will try and explain a little, how it is possible to understand how all this eating could be healthy. I will start off by mentioning that several years ago I was present in a Shiur given by Rav Moshe Sternbuch, Shlita, and a doctor asked him about diseases he had seen described in the Gemara and that he was trying to understand on the basis of illnesses he was familiar with from his own practice. Rav Moshe answered very emphatically that the illnesses they had in those days are totally different from what we have nowadays and there is no point trying to compare them.

I will elaborate a bit more on the basis of a concept which is actually incorporated in the Halacha and is known as "Nishtanu Ha-Tevaim" - "nature has changed". This appears in Shulcahn Arukh EH 156:4 in Rema. There, the Gemara Nidah 38b is cited that a woman who gives birth in the 9th month, only gives birth after the end of 9 full months. In other words, in the time of the Talmud, women never had babies in the middle of the 9th month, only at the end of the 9th month. However, an authority from over 600 years ago is cited as saying that many have been amazed at this, because the reality nowadays is different. Tosfos Avoda Zara 24b DH PORO is cited for additional examples of physical facts which have changed since the time of the Gemara, and Rema's conclusion is that many natural phenomena have changed.

I will just make one more observation. At one time, being fat was considered healthy. In Bereishis 41:2 one sees that fat cows are healthy cows, and in Shoftim 3:17 Eglon is described as being very "bari", which means he was fat, but the word "bari" is used nowadays to mean healthy. Probably because people did more manual work and took more physical exercise, there were less dangers of heart disease from being fat.

In short, I have tried to describe a little how physical life has changed so much since the time of the Talmud, which may help us understand a little better these accounts of remarkable eating habits.

KOL TUV

Dovid Bloom