Hello kollel!
The Gemara tries to show that Calev and his sons had children very early (approx age 8) since Bezalel is his great grandson.
My question is, unless this is hyperbole or a very unique case, if it was common for people to be having children so young, how many generations were there in Egypt?? Assuming the exile lasted 210 years this means there would be 26 generations, which doesn't seem in line with pshat in the Torah narrative (eg Yosef seeing Ephraims grandsons in genesis 50:22, though it does help understand the huge population growth).
Appreciate your insights!
Josh
Shalom Josh,
Yes, this seems to have been a very unique case. Just because Kalev, Chur, and Uri had children at age eight doesn't mean that many others also did so -- aside, of course, from Achitofel, Eliam, and Batsheva who were described earlier on this Daf.
Your comments actually remind me of the case of Yocheved who gave birth to Moshe Rabeinu at the ripe age of 130, which is quite the reverse of our scenario. See Sotah 12a with Rashi (DH Bas Meah u'Shloshim).
In any event, it seems clear that both these extremely young and extremely old cases are not representative of the general trend across the whole population.
Warmest regards,
Yishai Rasowsky
Thank you. I had a follow on about how the Gemara can say batsheva had shlomo at 6 (was she married to Uriah at 4?) especially since the tanach says she was an "isha" when King David saw her on the rooftop?
Shalom R' Josh!
Please excuse me, I must stand corrected. The Maharsha (Chidushei Agados 69b DH Avraham) discussed the age of Haran when his daughter Sarah (or, maybe more accurately, Sarai) was born. It may have been when he was seven years and four months old; or, as the Midrash (Bereishis Rabbah 39:2) has it, he was six years old. In any event, in the course of his discussion, the Maharsha makes the point that in those times people feasibly -- and maybe regularly -- had children at age 8.
Warmest regards,
Yishai Rasowsky
Thanks rav Yishai. Can the word "isha" as opposed to "naarah" or similar be used for a girl of 6? Do we have an example like that with anyone else?
Shalom R' Danziger!
1) At the moment, I believe I see some examples of the word Ishah can be used for someone underage. For example, Bereishis 24:67 (though opinions differ whether Rivkah was 3 or older, e.g. 14 which is over the age of Gadlus; see Tosfos in Yevamos 61b DH v'Chein); Niddah 32a, 45a; Rambam, Hilchos Isurei Biah 1:13, Hilchos Isurei Mizbeach 4:3 (though we may not be able to interpret this as being conclusive, because it also uses the word Ish for someone underage); Tur, Even ha'Ezer 20:1. So from here the argument can be made that Ishah is not like the word Ish for a man, which does in fact indicate Gadlus, which we see from several sources: Sanhedrin 68b, Sotah 26b, Kidushin 42a, and many more; but perhaps most interestingly, Rashi on Nazir 29b regarding Bereishis 34:25.
2) Regarding the age at which most people in earlier times gave birth, a friend and mentor of mine, Rabbi David Dombrowski, graciously pointed out to me that a number of commentaries (Chidushei ha'Ran and Toras Chayim on Sanhedrin; Mefarshim cited by the Pnei Yehoshua at the end of his introduction to Kesuvos; Panim Yafos on Parshas Bereishis 4:23) explain that only a minority of people in that era had children at such a young age; most of the time, however, they would not have children before reaching the age of Gadlus. This seems to help a great deal resolving your excellent question about the number of generations in the 210 year period in Egypt.
Warmest regards,
Yishai Rasowsky