I do not understand what Tosafos is saying about the age of physical maturity in Sanhedrin 69b.
Bereshis Rabba 80:10 learns that Levi was called an ish in the war against Shechem, and therefore he was 13, which is the age of bar mitzvah. This also applies to Betzalel according to the Gemara.
But Tosafos in Sanhedrin 69b points out that in early days children matured at much younger ages. I don't understand how Tosafos explains the Midrash that uses the case of Levi to argue the age of bar mitzvah is at 13, when in early times of the Avos etc. bar mitzvah was at 8 or 10 years old, when a boy could even grow a beard?
Thanks.
David Goldman, USA
1) It seems that Tosfos in Sanhedrin (69a) himself asks your question. Tosfos asks, how can the Gemara (end of 69b) prove from the words "Ish Ish" that Betzalel was 13 when he buiit the Mishkan if, in those days, they matured earlier?
2) Tosfos answers that even if one wants to say that in the early generations the age of adulthood was determined according to the age of adulthood nowadays, nevertheless Betzalel was at the very most 13 when he built the Mishkan.
3) I would like to suggest that Tosfos is referring to the Teshuvas ha'Rosh, chapter 16, that we have discussed on previous occasions. The Rosh writes that the age of 13 for adulthood, and for being obligated in Mitzvos, is a Halachah l'Moshe mi'Sinai. If so, presumably this Halachah does not change according to different times. Therefore, even though physical maturity occured earlier in the former generations, this did not make a difference to the age of Bar Mitzvah. According to this, even if Levi and Betzalel were physically mature before 13, nevertheless their Bar Mitzvah was only at 13.
Kol Tuv,
Dovid Bloom
Thanks. Does this mean that the presence of hair in younger ages had NEVER been the criteria for determining status of the chiyuv at Beis Din for a bar mitzvah (or bas mitzvah) and that it only was a new takkana sometime during the second Temple period, or at the end of that period?
David G
The Chidushei ha'Ran in our Sugya writes that when the Gemara states that the early generations gave birth at such young ages, this applies only to the individuals for whom we are forced to say this, because of the verses of the Torah. However, everyone else was capable of giving birth only at 13.
This is a support for the Teshuvas ha'Rosh, who says that it is a Halachah l'Moshe mi'Sinai that adulthood is at 13, and we can say that this applied both after the Torah was given on Sinai and in the early generations also. The examples mentioned by the Gemara were exceptional cases. Levi was not an unusual case, and only became adult at the age of 13, so this is why we can learn from the word "Ish" that he was 13.
Kol Tuv,
Dovid Bloom
Thank you. However, why does the gemara not state what the Rosh says? Presumably isn't it only for the gemara to tell us something is Torah Le Moshe MiSinai.
Regarding the ages, regarding the Ran, what would it then mean if in fact it was a general fact that people matured earlier, as stated by Tosafos? Tosafos does not suggest that it was only relevant to those identified in the Tanach itself. Indeed, there are midrashim that discuss other people, including Bas-Sheva, but these are not explicitly stated in the psukim.
1) As you pointed out yourself recently, David, Tosfos in Yevamos 71b (DH Lo) writes that Peri'ah is a Halachah l'Moshe mi'Sinai, even though it does not say so explicitly in the Gemara. It seems that the Gemara does not always tell us what is a Halachah l'Moshe mi'Sinai.
2) See Bereshis 25:20, that Yitzchak was 40 when he married Rivkah. Rashi writes that he was 37 when Rivkah was born and he waited for her to be 3 until he married her. The Sisfsei Chachamim writes that even though she was Re'uyah l'Bi'ah, she was not yet capable of becoming pregnant. The source of the Sifsei Chachamim is Rabeinu Eliyahu Mizrachi, who writes that Rivkah would be capable of having children only at the age of 12. This is consistent with the opinion of the Ran that not everyone was capable of giving birth under the age of 12 in the Doros Rishonim.
Kol Tuv,
Dovid Bloom
Thank you. Then why were the simanim of hairs only established in the time of Bayis Sheni?
And why doesn't Tosafos just state that physical maturity under 12 or 13 was an unusual and rare event and therefore not a kashe on the gemara? Are there any midrashim that clarify this? Of course we would assume that Tosafos would have known about them.
1) There is a dispute here between Tosfos and the Ran, but I would like to suggest an interpretation that would make the difference between them not so extreme.
2) I assert that according to Tosfos, in the Doros Rishonim people did not always give birth at 8 years. However, it was not rare for such a thing to happen. The difference between the opinion of the Ran and the opinion of Tosfos is that according to the Ran we only say that someone matured so early if we are forced by a verse to say so, while according to Tosfos it could happen even in standard cases.
3) Tosfos does not say that the Siman of hairs was established only later on. Rather, Tosfos says that it was only later on that a fixed age was stated. Tosfos seems to say that the key factor for adulthood is hairs, while the age was variable in the early times.
4) I am not sure that it will be decisive to find Midrashim about people giving birth at early ages, because the Ran could always say that this was one of the rare occurences.
5) It seems that there are a few Rishonim who disagree with Tosfos. The Teshuvas ha'Rosh (16:1) writes that 13 (or 12 years for a girl) is a Halachah l'Moshe mi'Sinai, which implies that the key factor is years. This is not consistent with Tosfos, as I wrote above (in (3)). There is also an important Teshuvah of the Maharil (#51), who also writes that the years are a Halachah l'Moshe mi'Sinai.
We see that this is a big Sugya, requiring further research.
Kol Tuv,
Dovid Bloom