More Discussions for this daf
1. An argument with God 2. Mili d'Alma? 3. Machlokes R. Eliezer and The Rabanan
4. Die Rather than embarass someone 5. A husband who follows his wife's advice 6. ąéōåź ąå īåēģōś äłéčä
ļ»æ DAF DISCUSSIONS - BAVA METZIA 59
1. R Karaguilla asks:

Shalom u Bracha.

How could it be that the Gmara proves that a husband that follow his wife goes to Gehenom from Izevel and Achav. They were not "normal people" they were Reshaim.

Tks

2. The Kollel replies:

Shalom R' Karaguilla,

This is a very perceptive question you are raising regarding the statement of Rav here on Bava Metzia 59a! Yasher Koach! The essence of my response to your excellent point is actually brief, and I will write it below in the conclusion. But meanwhile please allow me to expand on the issue by first citing a number of other sources.

Chazal elsewhere indicate that it is in fact legitimate to take counsel with one's wife's and abide by her advice (Berachos 61a and Eruvin 18a which discuss Manoach).

In addition, we have no shortage of examples where a wife supplies very good advice, even when it was against the will of her husband, and the result ended up being very positive (Sarah in Bereishis 21:12; Rivkah in Bereishis chapter 27; Tziporah in Shemos 4:25; Manoch's wife in Shoftim 13:23; Avigayil in Shmuel I chapter 25 -- though she was not yet married to David).

Moreover, the Midrash (Bereishis Rabbah 17:7) teaches that a while a wicked wife's influence can cause a righteous man to become bad, the converse is also true: a righteous wife's influence tends to cause a wicked man to become good.

Interestingly, we even see elsewhere (Sanhedrin 109-110) that Rav himself -- the same author of the statement in our Gemara -- cites a Posuk (Mishlei 14:1) which teaches that a wife can either be a very good influence on her husband, as in the case of Ohn Ben Peles, or a very bad influence, as in the case of Korach.

Finally, coming back to our very Gemara, we see that in the Maskana Rav's admonition against listening to one's wife's advice is qualified and only applies to either worldly -- or spiritual (two Lishnas) -- matters.

One can make the argument that it is fair to infer from all the above that Rav was not proving from the wicked Izevel that anyone who listens to his wife counsel will fall into Gehenom, even though that is what the Gemara sounds like it is saying. But rather, what Rav might mean, is that if a husband indiscriminately and without qualification decides to always obey his wife's advice, then he runs a very high risk of earning a terrible punishment in the event that she advises him to follow wicked behavior.

So, in conclusion, according to this line of thought, Rav is not saying that all wives will bring just as much retribution on their husbands as the wicked Izevel did; but he means that she was an extreme example which shows us graphically and provocatively just how far this sort of damaging influence can reach.

Warmest regards,

Yishai Rasowsky