1) Avrumi, you are correct. It would not have been good for Kalba Savu'a to do that. But the Rasha is not looking for good things. The main thing that the Rasha is interested in is that not a penny should be given to a good-for-niothing like Rebbi Akiva and it does not matter to the Rasha who suffers as a result.

2) Let us attempt to understand why Kalba Savu'a did it:

a) I am not going to try to understand what the Rasha said, because the Navi tells us, "And the Resha'im are like the troubled sea; it cannot rest" (Yeshayahu 57:20, part of the Haftarah on Yom Kippur morning). The Resha'im are always saying things, and I do not know if we have to try to understand them. However, I think we can try to understand why Kalba Savu'a made a Neder that his daughter should have no benefit from all of his tremendous wealth, as a punishment for her marrying Rebbi Akiva, or as a way of pressuring her into leaving him.

b) We learn -- at the end of the story in our Gemara -- that when Kalba Savu'a heard, 24 years later, that his son-in-law was a great Torah sage, he asked to annul his Neder. The Gemara in Kesuvos 63a tells us a little more, and explains that Kalba Savu'a said that even if he would have known that his son-in-law knew one chapter or one Halachah (thw Teshuvas Ra'avad #43 writes "even one Mishnah") he would have not have made the neder.

c) So when his precious daughter Rachel got married, her father Kalba Savu'a thought that the groom was a total ignoramus, and also had no prospect of ever learning anything. In addition, it appears from the Gemara that Kalba Savu'a possessed an appreciation of Torah scholars. So it is very likely that with his great wealth he could have married off his daughter to the best Talmid in the Yeshiva world. Instead, she seemed to have gone crazy and went off with a good-for-nothing.

d) I think we may have managed to understand a little about Kalba Savu'a's behavior. He was trying to discourage his dear daughter from making such a foolish move. But the Rasha should have been able to see by now that Rebbi Akiva was a very serious student, and should have known that Rachel had willingly encouraged her husband to go away and learn.

3) Let us now explore the idea that the Rasha was trying to make Rachel hate her husband.

a) The Masores ha'Shas here points out that the account related in our Gemara is also related in Kesuvos 62b with a few differences.

One of these differences may be seen on the last line of Kesuvos 62b, which tells us that when Rebbi Akiva returned home after the first 12 years of learning, he heard "ha'Hu Saba" say to Rebbi Akiva's wife, "How long will you live the life of a widow of a living man, living alone while your husband is in a different place?" Now, Tosfos (Chulin 6a, DH Ashkechei) writes that some explain that wherever in Shas the name "ha'Hu Saba" is used, it refers to Eliyahu ha'Navi.

b) This is very perplexing, because according to this, what Eliyahu ha'Navi said in Kesuvos 63a is very similar to what the Rasha said in Nedarim 50a!

c) Sefer Gufei Halachos (Klal 166), by Rav Shlomo Algazi (1610-1683, of Turkey and Yerushalayim) writes that these two individuals are certainly not the same person. Eliyahu ha'Navi, in Kesuvos 62b, was trying to test Rachel, and also to prompt her to say that she would like her husband to go back and learn for another 12 years, so that Rebbi Akiva would hear this. The Rasha of Nedarim 50a was a totally different person and it was a different incident. His entire intention was to try and make Rachel hate her husband. This is why the Rasha said, "Your father was right when he made the Neder," and he added that "you are not similar to your husband." The Rasha was not trying to test her, like Eliyahu ha'Navi was, but he was promoting hatred between husband and wife.

d) So now we have another insight to answer the question, how did it make it good what Kalba Savu'a did to Rachel? The Rasha was reminding Rachel that her father was against the marriage from the start, and he was claiming that the passage of time proved that her father was right in the first place. The Rasha was trying to stir up hatred between Rachel and Rebbi Akiva.

4) I am going to continue, bs'd, along the lines of what I wrote above, but to look a bit further into the background to what happened at the beginning of the story, when Kalba Savu'a made the Neder to cut off his daughter from his estate.

a) I think we can understand something about this from the end of the story. I found in Midrash ha'Gadol, published by Rav Dovid Tzvi Hofman zt'l in 5674, that there are a few additions to the account of the Gemara. In our Gemara in Nedarim it merely states that when Rebbi Akiva returned with 24,000 Talmidim, Kalba Savu'a came and asked for a Heter for his vow. In Kesuvos 63a, it states a little more -- that Kalba Savu'a heard that a great man had arrived in town, and without knowing that this was Rebbi Akiva himself, he said that "I will go to him since possibly he can annul my vow." Rebbi Akiva asked him would he have made the Neder in the first place if he would have known that his son-in-law would become a great man. Kalba Savu'a answered that even if he would have known that his son-in-law would learn one chapter or even one Halachah, he would not have made the vow. Rebbi Akiva then revealed to him that he is the son-in-law!

b) In Midrash ha'Gadol to Shemos 4:13, there are a few additons to the story. We are told that Rebbi Akiva came back home, after 14 years of teaching Torah in public, with thousands of pairs of students. All the great personalities of Yerushalayim heard that the great sage had arrived in town, and they went to greet him with great joy. They sat together and learned Torah, and Kalba Savu'a came to join them.

c) We remind ourselves that Rashi in Kesuvos 62b (DH Kalba) writes that Kalba Savu'a was one of the wealthy people of Yerushalayim. We note, therefore, that it was not only the scholars of the city that came to greet Rebbi Akiva, but also the affluent and influential leaders of the community.

d) Now, to continue with the account of the Midrash ha'Gadol: We read that Kalba Savu'a humbled himself and sat in front of Rebbi Akiva like a Talmid sits in front of his Rebbi. (It seems to me that this in itself shows us something special about Kalba Savu'a, that such a wealthy man showed such humility in front of a Talmid Chacham.) Kalba Savu'a then said that he has a question to ask. "I have a daughter who angered me several years ago. I drove her out of my house and swore that I will not support her. Now they tell me that she is in great distress, hungry and thirsty, and I have mercy on her and want to annul the oath so that I can return her to my house."

Rebbi Akiva asked him, "What is your daughter like?"

He answered, "I employed a shepherd -- ignorant, common, and stupid, a Nochri in every way, who did not even know how to recite Birkas ha'Mazon, and my daughter married him!"

Rebbi Akiva asked him, "If you would find out that he knows Chumash and Mishnah, what would you do to him"?

Kalba Savu'a answered, "Even if he would know Birkas ha'Mazon, I would give him half of my property."

Rebbi Akiva exclaimed, "I am Akiva your son-in-law!"

e) We now get an idea of the argument between Kalba Savu'a and Rachel at the time of her marriage. He thought his daughter was making a terrible mistake, and many of his friends must have agreed with him. Now, according to the Gemara in Nedarim, when Rebbi Akiva returned after 12 years and was not yet so famous and it was not yet clear to everyone that Kalba Savu'a was wrong, the Rasha had an argument to put to Rachel that could sound logical to some. At least, if she would admit that her father was right all along this might persuade her to be "tougher" with her husband and make him come home and care more about his household and family. Maybe her father would be agreeable to ask for a Heter earlier than 14 years later.

f) However, as I wrote above, even though there might be some logic behind the Rasha's argument, he still was a Rasha because his intention was merely to make Rachel hate her husband and break up the marriage.

5) Above (in #3c) I cited the explanation of Rav Shlomo Algazi. I will add that the Ben Yehoyada (which is much more readily accessible than Sefer Gufei Halachos of Rav Algazi) on Kesuvos (end of 62b) writes a similar explanation. (Rav Algazi lived in Izmir, while the Ben Yehoyada lived in Baghdad over 200 years later.)

a) The Ben Yehoyada also writes that "ha'Hu Saba" mentioned in Kesuvos 62b was Eliyahu ha'Navi. His comment to her about being a widow of a live man was made so that she would reply that she wanted Rebbi Akiva to go back and learn for another 12 years. The Ben Yehoyada then cites our Gemara and writes that it is possible that there is no contradiction between the account in Nedarim and that in Kesuvos. When Eliyahu ha'Navi spoke to her (in a way that he appeared to her to be an elderly man) and she answered to him as the Gemara in Kesuvos states, there was a Rasha standing there. When the Rasha heard what she said to the Saba, he said to her, "Your father was right in what he did!" in order to tease Rachel and annoy her. But Rachel did not get angry but calmly replied to the Rasha with the same words that she said to the Saba.

b) The Ben Yehoyda adds that possibly this was also Hashgachah from Heaven that the Rasha should say this -- so that Rachel would make the same reply again, and now Rebbi Akiva would hear it twice and be strengthened in his resolve to go back to the Yeshivah, in the knowledge that his wife agreed totally with this decision.

c) So both Rav Shlomo Algazi and the Ben Yehoyada write that the Rasha had bad intentions. (Possibly there is a difference between these two explanations, in that according to Rav Algazi he wanted to stir up arguments between husband and wife, while according to the Ben Yehoyada the main purpose of the Rasha was to anger Rachel alone.)

Dovid Bloom

Reb Shmuel Dovid, I miss your She'eilos!

1) See Tosfos to Kerisus 14a (DH Ela) who says that "the words of Torah are poor in one place and rich in another place."

2) I want to say that because it is obvious that once Kalba Savu'a knew how great his son-in-law was, and since he was so rich (as Rashi in Kesubos 62b writes), then it is Pashut that he will give his son-in-law lots of money.

3) The Pashut Pshat both in Nedarim and in Kesubos is that it took Kalba Savu'a 24 years to find out who Rebbi Akiva really was.

a) A big Yasher Ko'ach for showing me the Shitah Mekubetzes (Nedarim 50a, DH Eizil)!

It is quite difficult to understand the Shitah Mekubetzes, but I want to suggest Pshat as follows. The Shitah Mekubetzes begins, "Harbeh Chachamim Hayah Motzi Lifnei Bo Rebbi Akiva" -- "Kalba Savu'a rejected a lot of Chachamim before Rebbi Akiva came along." This means that because he was so wealthy, there were a lot of young aspiring Torah scholars who wanted to marry his daughter and be supported in learning by Kalba Savu'a. But Kalba Savu'a rejected them all. Then Rebbi Akiva -- who at that time had learned nothing -- came along and Kalba Savu'a was shocked and shattered when his daughter was so determined to marry him.

b) Kalba Savu'a must have had a shortcoming in his appreciation of people who learn Torah, especially young men of marriageable age whom one does not quite appreciate, since their Torah learning is not yet well developed. Kalba Savu'a was very disappointed with his daughter's decision to marry an ignoramus but, on the other hand, he did not manage to reflect on what had happened and admit that he was partly to "blame" for his daughter's decision when he rejected some good offers before Rebbi Akiva arrived. Then, a great scholar arrived in town with 24,000 students. Now Kalba Savu'a saw and appreciated the honor of Torah. He started thinking to himself that he had not behaved in the right way all those years ago when he rejected some good offers, and when the whole episode came to a climax in his daughter's "shocking" decision. Kalba Savu'a started thinking that in reality he was to blame for what happened. His lack of respect for young Torah students had led to the disastrous result of him cutting off his daughter. He wanted to get a Heter for that Neder.

c) The Gemara in Kesubos fills us in on how he was Matir the vow. Rebbi Akiva asked him if he would have known that Rachel's husband would become a great sage, would he have made the Neder? Rebbi Akiva understood that Kalba Savu'a rejected the young learners because he could not yet appreciate how great they would become later on, but if he would have known this he would not have made the Neder. Kalba Savu'a replied that his thinking at that time was a lot simpler. He thought (probably corectly) that Akiva did not even know one chapter or one Halachah. If Akiva would have known even that, he would not have made the Neder.

d) So the reason he waited so long before annulling his vow was because it was only when a great Chacham came to town with thousands of Talmidim that he now appreciated fully the value of Torah and realized how wrong he had been in his approach when Rachel was of marriageable age.

4) In the edition of the Shitah Mekubetzes that I have at home (which was the standard edition before they started publishing the new editions), the word ????? ("Motzi" -- take out, or eject) is used. In the new editions they emended it to ???? ("Motze" -- find).

According to the old text, it means "he ejected many Chachamim before Rebbi Akiva came," while according to the emended text, it means "he could have found many Chachamim before Rebbi Akiva came."

a) So according to the new text, it is quite simple. Kalba Savu'a could have found many Chachamim whom he could have asked for a Heter for his Neder, before Rebbi Akiva came with thousands of his students, but he regretted his original Neder only when Rebbi Akiva came. According to the old text, we are not referring to Rebbi Akiva coming with his students. We are referring to Rebbi Akiva coming into Rachel's life 24 years earlier. Before Rebbi Akiva came, Kalba Savu'a rejected many Chachamim from the possibility of being his son-in-law, and it was only 24 years later that he regretted his behavior.

b) I do concede that there are advantages to the new Girsa. However, according to the old Girsa, a question that I was troubled with for a long time is resolved. Since Kalba Savu'a was so wealthy, he certainly could have attracted for his daughter a young rising Talmid Chacham. So why did Rachel want to marry this Am ha'Aretz called Akiva? According to the old text, it is because Kalba Savu'a found something wrong with every proposal.

c) But according to both texts, the reason he waited so long to annul his vow is that it is only when the very great Rebbi Akiva arrived, with myriads of students, that he saw the tremendous value of Torah. It was only then that he regretted his behavior of all those years ago.

5) If something is stated twice it is because of something new:

Back to the first two questions, about the differences between the accounts in Nedarim and Kesubos:

It may be possible to answer with the Gemara in Sotah 3b, where Rebbi Yishmael said that if a Parshah is said twice, this is because there is something new the second time it occurs. This is referring to Parshiyos in the Torah, but there may be a similar idea concerning why the same episode is stated twice in the Gemara -- to give different new insights as to what happened.

6) People rely only on great Rabbis:

I can suggest another reason for why Kalba Savu'a waited so long before he annulled his vow. This is based on the Me'iri in Pesachim 51a (DH Shnei Achim), who writes that a place where big Chachamim are not to be found is equivalent to a place where there are no Bnei Torah. The Me'iri writes that people listen only to the leading Chachamim.

This may fit with the Shitah Mekubetzea in Nedarim (according to the amended text). The Shitah Mekubetzes writes that Kalba Savu'a could have found a lot of Chachamim before Rebbi Akiva arrived, but it was only when Rebbi Akiva came, together with his many Talmidim, that he regretted his Neder. According to the Me'iri in Pesachim this is because people rely only on the really great Sages, so Kalba Savu'a did not feel that there was anyone big enough to annul his vow. When he saw all those Talmidim, he knew that Rebbi Akiva must be big enough to annul his vow.

Dovid Bloom