the gemara in Sanhedrin as well as pesachim talks about how horogei malchus get a kapara.
What are the gedarim of this?
1. What about a yid thats killed by a individual and not a malchus?
2. Does this only apply if he was for being Jewish? Lets say he was killed for some other reason by the malchus? (eg stealing a loaf of bread etc)
3. How would this apply if maybe even according to the torah he deserves to be killed and he got a fair trial? (eg a murderer in a democratic country gets the death penalty?
Ari,
Shalom R' Ari,
Great to hear from you!
Well, let's examine Abaye's suggestion to distinguish between Harugei Malchus and Harguei Beis Din. The premise is that Harugei Malchus should receive Kaparah, because they were killed even though legally they were not supposed to die; whereas the Harguei Beis Din should not receive Kaparah, because legally they were in fact supposed to die. According to this stage of the Gemara's discussion, one can debate whether this consideration -- legally "deserving" death -- applies to various cases, a number of which you astutely mentioned.
Regarding case #1 you mentioned, a Jew who is Chas v'Shalom killed by an individual is no more deserving of death than one killed by a Malchus; therefore, he would receive a Kaparah. Regarding cases #2 and #3, it would appear to apply to any case where Torah and Halachah don't dictate that the person is Chayav Misah.
But one is almost tempted to focus less on that whole facet of the discussion. The reason being because this whole premise is evidently rejected. The Gemara instead concludes that death plus burial provide atonement even for those who are killed by Beis Din. The disintegration of the body might also provide a necessary contribute to the Kaparah -- that is the Machlokess with Rav Ashi.
To illustrate this a little more strongly, consider, how could it be that someone whom the Torah says should be killed by the court is not afforded an atonement by that procedure of execution? We learn, after all, in the Rambam (Hilchos Sanhedrin 13:1) that the individual who is about to be given a capital punishment by Beis Din is supposed to recite Viduy or at the very least say "May my death be an atonement for all my sins."
(This somewhat relates to the discussion regarding what procedure can provide atonement for an individual's sins even if he did not do Teshuvah. For example, in Shevuos Daf 13a, we learn that the view of the Chachamim is that a person's death alone atones for almost of a person's sins. There are three exceptions mentioned, however -- Porek Ol, Migaleh Panim, and Meifer Bris -- that are only atoned for if the individual repents as well. Tosfos, however, maintains that suffering in the afterlife is necessary as well.)
Lastly, it is important to be aware of the role that Kaparah plays with respect to the Teshuvah process. We find the following in the Gemara Yoma 86a. For certain severe sins, i.e. Chilul Hash-m, even Teshuvah, Yom Kippur, and suffering are still not enough to achieve full atonement; rather, one needs death as well in order to finish off the Kaparah process.
Coming back to your original question, considering the above, a clear and convincing case can be made that death in almost all cases will in fact provide atonement.
Please also consider looking at the synopsis of whose death earns atonement, provided in Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 201:5.
May you continue to attain greatness in Torah and Yiras Shamayim!
Warmly,
Yishai Rasowsky
I don't understand. If death is in itself a kapara then whats the chiddush of the gemara in Sanhedrin? How do harugei malchus differ from a death of natural causes?
Also we find that even after a persons we look at who he was during his lifetime, for example where he is buried and the halacha that there is no aveilis for a rasha. We don't say "he got a kapara and is no longer a rasha". If death is a kapara why don't we say that he is no longer a rasha.
Shalom R' Ari,
Great to hear from you again!
I would understand that since he was killed by others, instead of dying in a natural manner, therefore his death itself is a Kaparah. For his life was "cut short", and this premature subtraction from his otherwise naturally alotted number of years, provides him an immediate atonement. This is not so, however, for someone who was killed by Beis Din. Such a death alone is not enough; he needs to also undergo burial -- in the appropriate location of the Beis ha'Kevaros (Shulchan Aruch, Yoreh Deah 362:5) -- before the atonement is completed.
I enjoy hearing your insights and comments on the Gemara. Keep up the amazing work!
Warmly,
Yishai Rasowsky