More Discussions for this daf
1. Making your self a sinner 2. Shanei Chazakah 3. Thirty Days
4. מאי בעית בהאי ביתא 5. שני חזקה טובא קאמינא 6. אמר רבא דינא קא"ל
DAF DISCUSSIONS - BAVA BASRA 30

1. Solomon Grossman asks:

The gmara says that 30 days is sensible for a person to be focused on his buissnes not knowing that some 1 is living in his house .

What botherd me with this is that 30 days have a few shabusom and Erev shabos which a person can't be busy with buissnes so u is that a excuse !?

And even more then this what is if there is a Tom TOv in between and chol hamoied Which he cant be bussy with buissnes and yet the shilchun urich quoting this haliche does not make a difference

Thanks for your reply

Solomon Grossman

2. The Kollel replies:

1) I can suggest an answer based on something that Rashi writes in last week's Parshah (Shemos 20:9). The verse states, "You shall work for six days and perform all your Melachah." Rashi writes that when Shabbos arrives one should view it as if all of his work has been done, so that he should not think about his work during Shabbos.

We learn from Rashi that it is best not to think at all about one's business on Shabbos. The Shulchan Aruch (Orach Chayim 306:8) writes that for Oneg Shabbos it is a Mitzvah not to think about one's affairs at all.

2) Chol ha'Mo'ed possesses different aspects. On one hand, the Gemara in Moed Katan (10b) states that if one will lose money by not doing business on Chol ha'Mo'ed, it is permitted. So it could be that a person is fairly busy on Chol ha'Mo'ed also. On the other hand, if a person does not have the above Heter, then he should also not be too preoccupied with worldy matters. The Mishnah Berurah (530:2) cites the Talmud Yerushalmi that the reason why one is not allowed to work on Chol ha'Mo'ed is so that we should have time for festive meals and for learning Torah.

So Chol ha'Mo'ed also is not the right time to be busy with mundane matters.

Kol Tuv,

Dovid Bloom

3. The Kollel adds:

1) One could argue about the above answer that not everyone is on the Madreigah that he does not think about his mundane affairs on Shabbos and Chol ha'Mo'ed. Even if he would claim in front of the Beis Din that he is careful about this on Shabbos, nevertheless if he is a person who is known not to be so pious, how is it possible that the court would accept his argument? In a city with many people (who are there for at least 30 days), we would expect that the person who claims he owns two houses here would meet some old friends in the city on Shabbos who would mention to him that somebody else is living in his house. Alternatively, since he stays for about 4 Shabbosim in the city during his 30-day visit, one would expect him to go for a walk on Shabbos afternoon at some stage and it would be likely that he would go in the direction of his house and notice if a stranger was living there.

2) In other words, even though the original houseowner would make the arguments that I mentioned in my first reply, it would often seem far-fetched for the Beis Din to give credit to these claims.

3) If we look at the commentary of the Yad Ramah in our Sugya, it may make it a bit easier to understand. The Yad Ramah writes that our Gemara is discussing a wartime senario. Even though he comes for 30 days every year, because of the fragile security situation in the city the visitor is always concerned that he may stay longer than is absolutely necessary for his business purposes, and he may not be able to return to his home base. Because of his nervousness about his safety, it does not occur to him to ask about his house.

According to the Yad Ramah, it seems that in addition to the Gemara's statement that he is preoccupied with his commerce for 30 days, he is also preoccupied with the emergency situation prevalent in the city he is visiting.

4) See also Rabeinu Yonah who mentions the possibility that the businessman is visiting with a group of people and they are all staying together in a hotel or a visitors' residence, and the businessman does not want to leave his group. This may help explain why the local inhabitants do not come and inform him on Shabbos about the person occupying his house, and why he does not go to visit his house himself on a Shabbos afternoon.

5) I think that we learn from the above details that it all depends on the specific scenario in each individual case. In every different circumstance the judge will always have to decide what argument on part of the contestants is believable.

Kol Tuv,

Dovid Bloom

4. Solomon Grossman asks:

Thanks a lot !

Honestly these replies make much more sense to me

The only thing that bothers me is that the shicun urich quotes this halache with no conditions of the below

Thanks again !

5. The Kollel replies:

1) Solomon, I was also disturbed by this question, but after thinking about it, I think this is a good example of the Torah reality that a Rabbi can give a ruling only if he is also aware of the practical facts, and it is not sufficient merely to know the Halachah stated in black and white in the Shulchan Aruch.

2) There is a famous expression about the "fifth volume" of Shulchan Aruch. The printed Shulchan Aruch contains only four volumes. However, it is said that the most important part of Shulchan Aruch is the fifth, unpublished part. The name of this section is "common sense"! The Dayan must use his "Sechel" to make sure that his ruling not only conforms with what is stated in the Halachah books, but also is logical to an average intelligent person.

3) So, in our Gemara we learn a principle that it is possible that a person is so preoccupied with his business that he does not have time to hear what is happening in his own property. This is something that is theoretically possible but one has to think whether it is likely that this person is so careful about Shabbos that he would not find time to hear about the local news, or whether it is only in times of security tensions that a person might be too nervous to interest himself. The Shulchan Aruch tells us possible arguments that people can make, but the Posek must use his judgement to decide if it is probable.

Kol Tuv,

Dovid Bloom