More Discussions for this daf
1. Redeem a first born; remove seven heads 2. letters of the Torah 3. A few questions
4. Serving one's parents 5. Letters, words, and verses in the Torah 6. Talmud Bavli and learning Tanach
7. The Middle of Tehilim 8. Pidyon Ha'Ben 9. Zevulun ben Dan
10. 600,000 Letters in the Torah 11. מאי כל מצות האב על הבן אילימא כל מצותא דמיחייב אבא למיעבד לבריה נשים חייבות 12. Letra Central da Torah - Central Letter of Torah
13. Shmuel regarding Chinuch 14. Obligation to teach child to swim 15. Number of verses in the Torah
16. Kol Mizwot ha'Av Al ha'Ben - Shuv? 17. Lefichach 18. Insights Source
19. Vav of Gachon 20. Vav of Gachon 21. כל מצוות האב על הבן
22. לפיכך
DAF DISCUSSIONS - KIDUSHIN 30

Chaim Baruch Silverman asked:

The gemorah does not elaborate on the obligation except for giving the reason of potential lifesaving.

1) Is this halacha? On both sons and daughters? How far does the reasoning of protecting the life go? Is it necessary to teach one's child about fire? CPR? Etc.? What do some of the commentators say?

2) Is there any other similar reference in Shas about obligations to teach or know lifesaving skills?

Thank you.

Chaim Baruch Silverman, silver spring, md

Rabbi Feinhandler writes replies:

Dear Chaim Baruch,

1) It seems that the Gemara here is referring to a person who lives near the water, but people like us who live inland, have no obligation whatsoever to teach swimming. It is also interesting to note that some Rabbis feel that it is forbidden to do so, as the great majority of people that drown every year are those that know how to swim.

2) Knowing how to save a person's life is not mentioned at all. According to "Aliyos Eliyahu," the Vilna Gaon's father forbade him to learn doctoral skills, fearing that having such knowledge would obligate him to use it constantly to save people's lives and would thus detract him from his Torah study.

Best wishes,

Rabbi Yisroel Pesach Feinhandler, Rabbi of Avney Yashpe Synagogue

feinhan@zahav.net.il

The Kollel adds:

2) The point of teaching one's children swimming skills is in order for them to save their own lives should they fall into a body of water. The Gemara abounds with this type of "lifesaving" lessons. For example, we are taught many pointers for avoiding the plottings of evildoers and for self-protection. (See Avodah Zarah 25b, "Ashrei Rebbi Akiva v'Talmidav, she'Lo Baga Bahen Adam Ra me'Olam"; Shabbos 19a Bava Basra 167a and Chulin 105a "Kevar Kadmuch Rabanan," to name just a few.)

If you are referring specifically to protection from natural calamities, there are many Gemaras which teach a person to protect himself from harm through natural occurences as well. (See, for example, Kesuvos 30b with regard to Tzinim and Pachim, Shabbos 147a "Ein Yordim l'Kurdima", Rosh Hashanah 16b "Kir Natuy" etc.)

Learning the skills needed to save others, such as CPR, is of course, a different subject. The Gemara tells us quite clearly the importance of "ha'Matzil Nefesh Achas mi'Yisrael...." In many places we find that if one has the ability to benefit others -- whether it be by teaching them or by rebuking them or by physically providing for them -- he will be punished if he not put his ability to use. Saving another person's money from harm is a Mitzvah d'Oraisa of "Hashavas Aveidah," all the more so saving his skin (see Bava Kama 81b).

M. Kornfeld

J. Silverman responds:

Thank you for responding!

With regards to answer #1 of Rabbi Feindhandler that the obligation to save a life refers only to those living near water- where is this source? Also, who are the poskim that rule that actually one should specifically not teach one's child to know how to swim?

Also, are there any opinions that source this halacha as being a) d'oraisa?,

b) mitzva d'rabanan?, c) a gazara d'rabanan, or are opinions in agreement that
this would classify as an an eitza tova?

Thank you very much for your efforts!

The Kollel replies:

Rav Feinhandler forwarded the following Teshuvah in response to your questions. The Teshuvah is in Hebrew, in .pdf format (attached).

Best wishes,

Kollel Iyun Hadaf

Sam Kosofsky comments:

As a former Camp (and other places) lifeguard I can tell you that people who can swim are much safer near water than those who can't. I have seen people with poor swimming skills almost drown more than once. The concept that one is in greater danger knowing how to swim than not knowing how astounds me. It's totally not mistaber is is not supported by any statistics. It reminds me of those who don't wear seat belts because they believe the seat belt traps them and they'll be freer to move in an accident without the belt. There've been advertisements here showing a State trooper saying: "I've never unbuckled a dead man from a seat belt."

It's possible to drown in almost any depth of water. Even in the frumest of camps they teach swimming and water safety.

B'kavod,

Samuel Kosofsky

Phil Silverman adds:

Dear Rabbi Kornfeld,

Having read the discussion on teaching children how to swim, I thought I'd recommend a new website: www.drownproofing.com

I took this drownproofing course at Georgia Tech, and I went from being able to stay afloat for 7 grueling minutes in the beginning of the quarter to an easy-going hour at the end of the quarter.

Although there's nothing like a live teacher, the instructions on this site are well worth the few minutes.

Kol tuv,

Phil Silverman (Atlanta)