More Discussions for this daf
1. Chatzuva used by Yehoshua 2. SLAUGHTERING A DYING ANIMAL ON YOM TOV 3. Tereifah
4. Rav Chisda 5. Rav Chisda 6. Bechor she'Nafal l'Bor
7. רשד"ה בכור
DAF DISCUSSIONS - BEITZAH 25

Lenny asked:

1) It seems to indicate that if an animal is slaughtered properly, the basic presumption is that it is not treifa and can eaten and unless subsequent inspection reveals it to be treif it remains ok and even then, according to Rashi, a hole in the lungs could be presumed to have occurred during the animals life. If correct, it would seem that there is at least one other standard of kashrus, lower than today's glatt and regular, which is presumed kosher, or even lower, presumed kosher in spite of finding a perforation in a lung or intestine. ???

2) It also speaks of eating from a live animal as being forbidden but seems to indicate that eating meat cut off the carcass is ok, without broiling/kashering. How can that be??

3) Why would Rami bar Abba mention relations with a niddah as a sort of behavioral rule, when it is prohibited, or is it??

Lenny, Teaneck, NJ, US

The Kollel replies:

(1) Rav Huna said (25a) that if an animal was slaughtered properly one can assume ("Chazakah") that it is Kosher unless one knows it is Treifah. RASHI DH LA'AFUKI explains that this is because the average animal is not a Treifah. Rashi adds that if, after a good Shechitah, one found a hole in the lung or intestines and one does not know whether the hole developed (a) before slaughtering (and therefore the animal is forbidden) or (b) after the slaughtering (so the animal is permitted), one may place the animal on the permitted Chazakah (assumption) that it possessed before the doubt occured and therefore the animal is permitted (because immediately after the Shechitah the animal possessed a Chazakah of being permitted and only later did the doubt occur), unless one knows for sure that it is Treifah.

This means that Rashi says that in case of doubt one assumes that (b) the hole developed after Shechitah and the animal is permitted. This is the opposite of what you wrote that according to Rashi one assumes the hole in the lung developed while the animal was alive.

However if one knew that the hole actually developed when the animal was alive (i.e. scenario (a)) one sees from Rashi that it clearly is a Treifah and is forbidden. This is in fact stated in the MISHNAH in CHULIN 42a that if there is a hole in the lung or the intestines (i.e. at the time when the animal was slaughtered), it is forbidden mid'Oraisa.

It follows that no animal lower than glatt or regular is kosher but rather any animal with a hole in the lung or intestines is strictly forbidden.

(2) There are two ways mentioned by the Mishnah of eating the meat. The Tana Kama says it is eaten roasted. This is the quickest normal way of preparing meat (see the MISHNAH BERURAH 488:35). One does not need to do the normal process of salting but one must rinse the meat and also salt it a bit before roasting (see SHULCHAN ARUCH 76:2 in Rema) and this is sufficient to remove the blood.

Rebbi Akiva says that one can eat the meat raw. See TOSFOS CHULIN 14a DH VE'NASBIN who writes that one is permitted to eat raw meat. There is a prohibition on eating the blood of the limbs, but this only applies after the blood has left the meat. If the blood has not yet departed from the flesh there is no prohibition on it.

(3) Relations with a Nidah certainly are prohibited. Rami bar Abba pointed out that the fact that the Torah said that one must wait 3 years before eating the fruit of a tree ("Orlah") shows that the Torah expects us to have patience (see Rashi DH NETI'AH). The person who had relations with a Nidah was lacking the patience to wait for her to go and immerse in the Mikvah. So it turns out that the Din of Orlah condemns the person who had relations with a Nidah.

KOL TUV

D.Bloom