More Discussions for this daf
1. The Se'ir of Nachshon 2. Doing business with Tamei animals 3. Rebbi Yehoshua Ben Levi on Isurei Achilah and Isurei Hana'ah
4. Trading pigskins 5. Eating Neveilah 6. Giving a Yerech
7. She'eilah for Terumah 8. איסור הנאה בשור הנסקל לפי הרמב"ם
DAF DISCUSSIONS - PESACHIM 23

Jeff Ram asked:

Regarding Jewish hunters who trap sheratzim while they are hunting for kosher animals, Tosefos discusses (d'h "Amar") how it is that Jews do business with beheimos temayos all the time, and differentiates between animals which are eaten (or used) "all the time", and animals that are not eaten. While on the subject of doing business in pigs, Tosefos references an agadita in Baba Kama 82b and gives us an eitza for how to sell pigs, even though they have an additional isur of "arur". This Tosefos is a "pela" to me for the following reasons:

1) These sheratzim are not covered in the sheva mitzvos of bnei No'ach as asur to the goyim, yet the inference by Tosefos is they are not eaten by the goyim either. This, then, gives Tosefos the chiluk to say that the law that prohibits doing business with tamei animals doesn't apply to those animals that are commonly eaten (unlike these sheratzim). If I'm correct in what Tosefos is inferring, why are these sheratzim not eaten by the goyim?

2) Regarding the agadita in Baba Kama; were the Romans really sending the daily tamid over the wall to the Jews during the siege? ...If so, why? and what were the circumstances that led to this unusual wartime behavior?... The story tells of an old man that advised the Romans to stop doing it. Is there any other reference to who this "old man" was?

3) Tosefos is quite clear that dealing in pigs is asur because of they also have a din of "arur". Why, then, does he immediately give us an "eitza" on how to "get around" this din, and do business with pigs?

I hope you can shed some light on these issues for me.

warm regards,

Jeff Ram,

Jerusalem

The Kollel replies:

1) Tosfos says that the Isur to deal in business with Tamei animals applies only to animals that are eaten. It is permitted to deal in animals and Sheratzim that are used for purposes other than eating, because one is not deriving benefit from these animals being eaten (the Isur is that one may not do business and profit from the eating of these animals, no matter who eats them). This Halachah was stated with regard to all Tamei animals, and it is not derived from Sheratzim.

2) It is clear from the Gemara that it was not the Romans who were sending the animals over the wall. Rather, the Gemara is describing the time when factions of Jews were fighting against each other, like two brothers who fight for the kingship. Those factions that were outside of the city also wanted the Korban Tamid to be brought. B'Ezras Hash-m we can discuss this more when we come to Bava Kama.

3) Tosfos' intention is to resolve the contradiction between the two Sugyos. The Gemara in Bava Kama implies that dealing with Chazirim is only included in the category of "Arur," but there is no actual Isur Lo Ta'aseh against doing business with Chazirim. Tosfos' intention is not to give a Heter in practice deal with Chazirim.