More Discussions for this daf
1. An Onen not allowed to do Mitzvos 2. Top Beraisa on Amud Alef 3. Aninus
DAF DISCUSSIONS - MOED KATAN 23

Joshua Danziger asks:

Hello kollel! I am learning Chagiga and the maggid shiur discussed aninus briefly, which brought me to some questions.

In general, is onein just patur from mitzvahs or actually prohibited to do an aseh?

If prohibited,, What happens if an onein does his sons bris (is hatafas dam brit required?

What happens if his childless brother dies? Since he's exempt from mitzvot is there any room to say the yavamah never falls to him?

What does he do in the midst of an ongoing mitzvah like sefira haomer? Or if he had prior pledged to do something with a neder on a specific day then became an onein that day.

Lots of questions I know, but thank you!

Josh

The Kollel replies:

Dear Josh,

Great to hear from you. Very excellent question!

1. Some infer that Rashi (Berachos 17b s.v. Mi she'Meiso and s.v. v'Eino Mevarech) holds an Onein is permitted to perform Mitzvos. Tosfos there, however, cites the Yerushalmi which forbids it, offering two reasons: a) Kavod ha'Meis, and b) the need for someone to bury the Meis. For the accepted Halachah, see Shulchan Aruch Orach Chayim 71:1, Magen Avraham s.k. 2 with Machatzis ha'Shekel, Hagahos Rav Akiva Eiger, and Mishnah Berurah s.k. 5.

2. Regarding Hatafas Dam Bris, this might be dependent on the above. I will add that from Chacham Tzvi (Shu"t #1) it would appear to be valid.

3. Regarding Yibum, Chacham Tzvi (ibid) appears to portray this as a Machlokess between himself (who validates it) versus Maharit.

4. I have heard that some -- Noda b'Yehudah, I believe -- deal with the question of Sefiras ha'Omer, and suggest that one may indeed count in order not to miss the rest of the days (according to Bahag). But I have not tracked this down yet to confirm it.

5. Since a Neder invovles the Lav of "Lo Yachel Devaro", one could argue that this would be included in the ruling of Chacham Tzvi (ibid) that an Onein is not exempt from negative prohibitions.

I hope this helps!

I wanted to share a reference for our Sefiras ha'Omer discussion.

1. Beur Halachah (Siman 489 s.v. b'Lo Berachah) cites the Nahar Shalom who does not allow an Onein to count; Nahar Shalom therefore suggests that the Onein should count the next day after the burial, thus enabling himself to count the remaining days with a Berachah.

2. However, B.H. points out, this assumes that counting in the day is not a make-up for the night. I understand that is because if it were, then he would not have the opportunity to the "make-up" for that which he was exempt in the first place as an Onein. In fact the B.H. questions this based on Ohr Zarua (329 citing Avi Ezri).

3. This also assumes that there is time after the funeral to count without a Berachah. If there is not, then he may not count with a Berachah on the remaining days of Sefirah.

4. On the other hand, B.H. cites the Noda b'Yehudah (O.C. 27) which I mentioned above that I had wanted to locate. He rules that the Onein may in fact count, and doesn't have to wait until after the funeral as Nahar Shalom maintained. The basis for this includes a few rationales: Counting Sefiras ha'Omer is a very brief Mitzvah that would not take time away from attention to the Meis. Plus, unlike the Stam indication of the Shulchan Aruch (who seemed to sided with Tosfos), there were some Poskim (as many interpret Rashi) who do permit an Onein from doing Mitzvos if he wishes to be Machmir. But this is provided he does so without reciting a Berachah whilst he is an Onein. And the permission to count the remaining days of Sefirah with a Berachah is also relying partially on the view of those who argue on the Bahag and don't require Temimos.

I hope this helps!

Warmest regards,

Yishai Rasowsky

Joshua Danziger asks:

Rav yishai, I saw a possible svara from the rambam. In hilchot parah adumah 4:14 the rambam says a kohen who slaughters while an onein is acceptable. This would seem to me that according to the rambam an onein may be patur but he's not prohibited from doing mitzvot.

Shabbat Shalom

The Kollel replies:

Shalom R' Danziger,

1) Yasher koach! You are raising an excellent point that is very relevant in order to fill in the whole picture.

2) It might be important to emphasize that the Rambam, which you adeptly cited, reflects Chazal's discussion in Zevachim 17b and Yevamos 74a where the discussion is about the relevance of a Torah prohibition for an Onein to partake of Korbanos, which actually applies the entire day of death, even after the burial. This would make it somewhat distinct from our discussion regarding the view that prohibits the Onein from performing Mitzvos, which is only mid'Rabanan and only applies until the Meis is buried.

3) Arguably, then, as reflected in the view of Chacham Tzvi above, even that view which prohibits an Onein from doing a Mitzvah could agree that if it was done, then it is valid.

4) This might even be construed in the language of the Gemara and the Rambam who phrase it as b'Di'eved, "if the Onein burned it". Potentially, this could imply an Isur l'Chatchilah.

5) On the other hand, from Rashi (Zevachim 17b s.v. Ksheirah) one might infer the opposite, i.e. that it is Mutar l'Chatchilah. This would actually be surprising, since -- as we discussed above -- some Mefarshim inferred from Rashi's words in Berachos (s.v. Mi she'Meiso and s.v. v'Eino Mevarech) that an Onein is permitted to perform a Mitzvah.

Thank you for sharing your finding and insight!

Warmest regards,

Yishai