More Discussions for this daf
1. Competition 2. The law of Hasagas Gevul 3. Renting and Sale for Noisy Use
4. Anachronistic Pesukim 5. The Takanah of Sending Children to School 6. be'Ram
7. רופא מוהל
DAF DISCUSSIONS - BAVA BASRA 21

1. Baruch Kahan asks:

The word Berom in this Sugya I find Shvare as in Deomar Rav Yehudah...Berom Zechor...

Poshut you could translate it as Beemes which I did but I notice in your notes you translate it as however which I think is the emesdik Peshat but what is Peshat in this normally you would say xyz ... HOWEVER like Mah She Ayn Keyn "Berom" in abc... .This is not going on here it is like a Maamar all by itself if anything you could have said "Ilmoley" Yehoshua Ben Gamla... ie were it not for Yehoshua Ben Gamla's Takonos etc.so how does Berom fit in here.

Efsher you can say that that is what Rashi in D.H. Mishum wants to tell us we know that besides the Gemoro in Yevomos that Rashi quotes there is a further Gemoro in Yoma 9a that says not many good things about the Koyhanim Gedoilim of Bayis Sheni that basically they were not much good Ober comes our Sugya to say Beram however they were not all bad and 1 of them Yehoshua Ben Gamla sticks out etc. so that is the understanding of putting the word Berom in this context ie as a Mah She Ayn Keyn to Yoma 9a

What do you think

Baruch Kahan, London

2. The Kollel replies:

(a) The words "habe'Ram b'Kushta" are used as the translation of "ha'Omnam" or "ha'Af Omnam" (Bereishis 18:13, Bamidbar 22:37, Tehilim 58:2). They are also used for "ha'Gam" (Bereishis 16:13) or "ha'Im" (Bamidbar 17:28, Targum Yonasan).

The word "be'Ram" (without the Heh) is used as Targum for "Af" or "Ach" (Bereishis 9:4, 18:32, 20:12).

Thus be'Ram can mean "it is really so!" (i.e., despite what one would think), as well as "but" or "however". When preceded by the letter Heh (which is used for questions), it means "is it really so?"

(b) The expression "be'Ram Zachur Oso ha'Ish l'Tov" is also used for Rebbi Yehudah ben Bava (Sanhedrin 13b) who gave his life to preserve the Semichah, and Chananyah ben Chizkiyah (Shabbos 13b), who defended Sefer Yechezkel. (We just had it in Dafyomi as well (Chulin 54a), regarding Rav.)

In each case, one may have thought that the person involved did not act properly. Rebbi Yehoshua ben Gamla should not have decentralized the educational system and made schools local institutions; Rav Yehudah ben Bava should not have given up his life for Semichah; Chananyah ben Chizkiyah should not have worked so hard to preserve the teachings of Yechezkel since the layman would still become confused by its seeming contradictions to the words of the Torah.

The Talmud tells us "be'Ram," however, this is not so. These people were deserving of the greatest of praise.

Best wishes,

Mordecai Kornfeld

Kollel Iyun Hadaf