More Discussions for this daf
1. The Prayer of 13 Midos will not be returned empty-handed 2. Burning in a Dish 3. Evil decree being torn up
4. Answering a question in the presence of one's Rebbi 5. Avodah on Field During Shemitah 6. מחלוקת ר"י ור"א בענין בריאת העולם
DAF DISCUSSIONS - ROSH HASHANAH 17

Zvi Shapiro asked:

The Gemara in Shabbos page 119b states: R' Yehoshua ben Levi said, " Whoever responds to kadish by saying Amen yehei shmai raba mevorach with all his might, the evil decree against him is torn up. Rashi says with all his might means with the utmost concentration. Tosfos says with a loud voice. The Ritva says that by saying the blessing loudly arouses concentration and devotion.

How does the Gemara in Shabbos fit with the Gemara in Rosh Hashana 17b and 18a?

Rabbi Akiva, Rabbi Elazar, the Tanna of the Beraisa on 17b, and Rav all maintain that an individual may avert an evil decree only during the Aseres Yemei Teshuva. Rabbi Yitzchak and maybe Rabbi Meir hold (while the Aseres Yemei Teshuva are propitious times for tefilla and teshuva) an individual can have his decree overturned through crying out at any time of the year.

Should we say the Gemara in Shabbos follows the view of R' Yitzchak and R' Meir? Can the Gemara in Shabbos be reconciled to the Rebbeim who hold that a decree can only be averted for a individual during Aseres Yemei Teshuva and if so, how? It seems that when the Gemara there says the decree is torn up, that implies post Yom Kippur when the decree has been sealed. Is the Gemara in Shabbos referring to someone who is on a high level after doing teshuva? Is it possible for the decree to be torn up for someone who has not done teshuva? Are their times even according to Rabbi Akiva, Rabbi Elazar, the Tanna of the Beraisa on Rosh Hashana 17b, and Rav when an individual can avert a harsh decree after Yom Kippur?

Zvi Shapiro, Long Beach, CA USA

The Kollel replies:

(1) It seems to me that one has to say that sometimes through a very great merit an evil decree can be annuled in a way that is not usually possible.

(2) I once saw that Rav Aharon Leib Steinemann Shlita explained R' Yehoshua ben Levi's statement in Shabbos 119b in the following way. This can be compared to a wordly king who very much loved a certain melody, so much so that even if somebody whom he did not like so much sang this tune for him, the king would still be very happy.

Of course the above is only a parable, but the idea behind it is that when someone says Amen Yehei Shmei Rabah Mevorach with all his heart, this means that the most important thing in this person's life is to praise Hash-m, so deep down this person must have a great belief and faith in Hash-m. This is really the most important thing in the world, so even if he had committed transgressions for which an evil decree had been passed against him, Hash-m is prepared to waive it aside.

(3) We find similar examples where a great merit can annul a decree. See for instance Tosfos Shabbos 156a DH Ein who writes that even though the Gemara in Moed Katan 28a writes that the number of children one has, the length of one's life and how wealthy one is, does not depend on one's merits but only depends on Mazal (the constellations), nevertheless this does not contradict the Gemara in Shabbos 156a that there is no Mazal that affects Yisrael, because if one possesses a great merit, the Mazal can change.

See also Sanhedrin 67b which states that "Mechashfim" (magicians) are so-called because they are "Makchish" (deny) the hosts of Heaven (i.e. sometimes Kishuf has stronger powers than the powers of good), nevertheless these powers had no influence over Rebbi Chanina because R. Chanina possessed a great merit. One sees from here that a great merit can sometimes overrule the normal rules.

(4) So I think that even according to the opinions in Rosh Hashanah that a decree on an individual can only be annulled in the Aseres Yemei Teshuva, this only applies to annulling a decree through more standard ways, but if someone answers Kadish really with his full Kavanah, this shows that he has a very special belief, which is a very great merit, and can waive everything aside.

(5) See also Sotah 49a which states that answering Yehei Shmei Rabah is one of the things which keeps the world going, and see Berachos end 3a which teaches us how much Hash-m loves to hear Jews saying Yehei Shmei Rabah, so we see again that this is something very special in Hash-m's eyes.

KOL TUV

Dovid Bloom

The Kollel adds:

Here are one or two thoughts to strengthen the above reply. In fact we can say that we see from our Gemara a clear proof of how great is the merit of answering Amen Yehei Shmei Rabah with one's full strength (See Rabeinu Yonah Berachos 13b in Rif pages DH b'Kol Kocho that this means with all one's Kavanah). There are many sources which show us how great this is, but they receive confirmation from your question because we now see that it has even greater power than the Teshuvah of a Jew all year round. Even though Chazal say that there is nothing which can stand up against Teshuvah, nevertheless saying Amen Yehei etc. is even greater.

The Gemara Berachos 3a states that when Yisrael say Amen Yehei etc. Hash-m remembers that the Beis ha'Mikdash has been destroyed and the Jewish People were sent into exile and says "Woe to the sons who have been exiled from their father's table - of what worth is it to the King if they praise him like this but He sent them away from His table". Metaphorically speaking, when Hash-m hears Amen... He is worried about the fact that He sent us into exile. (See Tur OC 56). See also the Beis Yosef OC 56, end 1, who cites the Zohar that one can see from the fact that somebody who has Mesirus Nefesh to hear the Kadish, that he is a great Torah scholar.

We see from all of this that the merit of Amen Yehei Shmei Rabah is different from other merits and the existence of the world depends upon it, because it is the greatest praise of Hash-m.

KOL TUV

Dovid Bloom