More Discussions for this daf
1. Human Ashes? 2. Har Ha'Moriah 3. Additions to Shemoneh Esrei
4. Efer Mikleh 5. Switch in the loshon 6. Who Davens for the Chazan?
7. Can the dead repay favors to the living? 8. Second Beraisa 9. Ninveh and Teshuvah
10. Davening in the town square 11. Is Height an influencing factor? Rashi DH "Adam Shel Tzurah" 12. Shofar on a Ta'anis
DAF DISCUSSIONS - TA'ANIS 16

Tzvi-Gad ben Rema asks:

I don't have a havruta. I have looked at your various online resources from time to time, but don't see this here. Currently I use Artscroll English Bavli (but also collecting Yerushalmi).

On the daf, there is a question what is Har Moriah, For which R. Levi bar Chama's offered pasuk is Yishayah 2:3 refereng to Tzion. So why didn't RLbC just say "Har Tzion", but just says har. Artscroll translates "the mountain" but this is wrong because hahar is har Sinai (they bring it later in an alternative in the note from Rashi/Tosfot, etc.?). Artscroll also interprets this pasuk as the Torah in future shall come from the reconstituted Sanhedrin of 71, but Sanhedrin was not for teaching Torah, but rather judging. Surely this is why the second explaination by R' Chanina that fear went out to idolatrous (lit. servants of stars), which Artscroll says are 'nations', but a) this opinion is not disputed, i.e. both are correct, and b) the Sanhedrin of 71 had no jurisdiction over idol worshipers, never mind other nations, but only over members of People Israel that turned to idol warship. Idol warshipers will fear because when Torah is proven to be right, i.e. there is proof of HaShem over all Creation, people that are guided by 'idols' (whatever that means) will have their very basis for world-view shattered. In this vein, while the usual translation of pligei is dispute, the shoresh peleg means to split, which is an allusion to another mountain in Yerushalaim, which is perhaps why there is no decision statement after this 'argument'...because it isn't an argument :-)

Also, what is the root of iyyun? Can't find it in Kline's, and I never really learned Hebrew grammar properly, because I failed it at uni when I discovered that the class is taught by a Egyptian Christian and I refused to learn it from one of them.

hag hasukkot someakh

Tzvi-Gad ben Rema

Sydney, Australia

The Kollel replies:

Dear Tzvi-Gad,

The question is not which mountain is Har Moriah but why is the known Har X (also) called Moriah? Rashi in the first way learns that the Gemara is referring to the Har of the Beis HaMikdash and in the second way it refers to Har Sinai.

The Beis HaMikdash has the name Moriah because of the teaching of the Sanhedrin that meets there. The Sanhedrin is not only for judging but also for deciding by majority what is the proper understanding of the Torah's commandments.

The Sanhedrin can also judge and punish gentiles! The gentiles are also in awe (Morah) from the Jews because of our greatness which is apparent from the Mikdash and the miracles surrounding it.

The Gemara can also be learned according to Rashi's second way about Har Sinai.

The root of the word Iyun is Ayin-Yud-Nun the same letters which means eye. Scrutinize (as with the eyes) is a close definition.

All the best,

Reuven Weiner