I hope I have this information correct but the Gemoro in Daf Yud Gimmel Omud Beys at the bottom lists all the made up "Taanes" that Homon has on Klal Yisroel now one of them says that if a zevuv would be in their cup of wine a Yid would just take it out and be able to drink the Koys however if you Achashverosh were to touch their cup they would have to throw it on the ground.Surely the Gemoro is being Meramez to the Gezeiro of Stam yeynom otu Yayin Nesech and I hope I have learnt this correctly but based on my understanding of the Mishna and consequent Sugya of Avoda Zarah Daf Kof Tess Omud Beys right up till Daf Lamed Vov Omud Beys and of Shulchon Oruch Yoreh Deah Simon Kuf Kaf Gimmel that this Gezeiroh only happened in Bayis Sheni and the Maaseh of Purim and the Megilah was between Churban Bayis Rishon and the rebuilding of the Bayis Sheini .Either this is a "CLOTZ" Kashe or everybody asks it so far I have not seen anybody who does .Please can you help Kol Tuv Boruch Kahan
Boruch Kahan London, london u.k.
(a) See the Chidushei Ramban on Avodah Zarah (end 36b) who cites the Pirkei d'Rebbi Eliezer ch. 47, which states that after the Ma'aseh with the daughters of Moav, at the end of Parshas Balak (which the Gemara in Sanhedrin 106a says happened because the Gezeirah of Stam Yeinam had not yet been made, so they enticed them by getting them drunk) Pinchas (the Ramban writes that this was Eliyahu, who was of course Pinchas) rose up and made a Cherem on all of Yisrael with the secret of the Name of Hash-m, that it was forbidden to drink Stam Yeinam.
Ramban asks on this from the Gemara in Avodah Zarah 36a that Stam Yeinam was one of the 18 Gezeiros that Beis Shamai and Beis Hillel made (see Shabbos 13b). The Ramban gives 2 answers:
(1) Pinchas made a Gezeirah that one must not drink Stam Yeinam and Beis Shamai and Beis Hillel extended this Gezeirah to say that one must also not derive benefit from it. (According to this answer in the time of Haman it was already forbidden to drink Stam Yeinam).
(2) The Takanah of Eliyahu was not accepted in a widespread way amongst all of Klal Yisrael. Therefore Daniel later renewed the Gezeirah on wine and also added on bread and oil (see Avodah Zarah 35b-36a). Not everyone accepted Daniel's Gezeirah either, and it was only when the students of Shamai and Hillel renewed the Gezeirah, that everyone accepted it.
(b) See the Beis Yosef YD 123 DH v'Chachamim who discusses the chronology of the Gezeiros according to the Rashba's opinion. The Beis Yosef's final answer is that Daniel's Gezeirah was that one must not drink Stam Yeinam in a party with a Nochri or in the Nochri's house. It appears from the Beis Yosef that this Gezeirah was accepted by Klal Yisrael. Afterwards the students of Hillel and Shamai forbade entirely the drinking of Stam Yeinam, even in a Jewish house.
(Since Daniel also lived in the period between the destruction of Bayis Rishon & the building of the Bayis Sheni, according to the above opinion there may have been an Isur on Stam Yeinam in the time of Haman.)
(3) There is another factor involved here. Even according to the opinions that there was no Isur at all until the students of Shamai and Hillel, nevertheless it is very possible that there was a minority of Klal Yisrael that did keep the Gezeiros that had been previously issued even though they had not been accepted yet by the majority of the people. Don't forget that Haman was no great lover of Klal Yisrael to say the least. So when he was trying to persuade Achashverosh to destroy Klal Yisrael he made up a Krumkeit to suggest that all Jews were particular about Stam Yeinam even though in reality only a minority was. In other words there was quite a significant Minhag at least not to drink Stam Yeinam and Haman ha'Rasha exploited this.
KOL TUV
Dovid Bloom
I hope I have this information correct but the Gemoro in Daf Yud Gimmel Omud Beys at the bottom lists all the made up "Taanes" that Homon has on Klal Yisroel now one of them says that if a zevuv would be in their cup of wine a Yid would just take it out and be able to drink the Koys however if you Achashverosh were to touch their cup they would have to throw it on the ground.Surely the Gemoro is being Meramez to the Gezeiro of Stam yeynom otu Yayin Nesech and I hope I have learnt this correctly but based on my understanding of the Mishna and consequent Sugya of Avoda Zarah Daf Kof Tess Omud Beys right up till Daf Lamed Vov Omud Beys and of Shulchon Oruch Yoreh Deah Simon Kuf Kaf Gimmel that this Gezeiroh only happened in Bayis Sheni and the Maaseh of Purim and the Megilah was between Churban Bayis Rishon and the rebuilding of the Bayis Sheini .Either this is a "CLOTZ" Kashe or everybody asks it so far I have not seen anybody who does .Please can you help Kol Tuv Boruch Kahan
Boruch Kahan London, london u.k.
(a) See the Chidushei Ramban on Avodah Zarah (end 36b) who cites the Pirkei d'Rebbi Eliezer ch. 47, which states that after the Ma'aseh with the daughters of Moav, at the end of Parshas Balak (which the Gemara in Sanhedrin 106a says happened because the Gezeirah of Stam Yeinam had not yet been made, so they enticed them by getting them drunk) Pinchas (the Ramban writes that this was Eliyahu, who was of course Pinchas) rose up and made a Cherem on all of Yisrael with the secret of the Name of Hash-m, that it was forbidden to drink Stam Yeinam.
Ramban asks on this from the Gemara in Avodah Zarah 36a that Stam Yeinam was one of the 18 Gezeiros that Beis Shamai and Beis Hillel made (see Shabbos 13b). The Ramban gives 2 answers:
(1) Pinchas made a Gezeirah that one must not drink Stam Yeinam and Beis Shamai and Beis Hillel extended this Gezeirah to say that one must also not derive benefit from it. (According to this answer in the time of Haman it was already forbidden to drink Stam Yeinam).
(2) The Takanah of Eliyahu was not accepted in a widespread way amongst all of Klal Yisrael. Therefore Daniel later renewed the Gezeirah on wine and also added on bread and oil (see Avodah Zarah 35b-36a). Not everyone accepted Daniel's Gezeirah either, and it was only when the students of Shamai and Hillel renewed the Gezeirah, that everyone accepted it.
(b) See the Beis Yosef YD 123 DH v'Chachamim who discusses the chronology of the Gezeiros according to the Rashba's opinion. The Beis Yosef's final answer is that Daniel's Gezeirah was that one must not drink Stam Yeinam in a party with a Nochri or in the Nochri's house. It appears from the Beis Yosef that this Gezeirah was accepted by Klal Yisrael. Afterwards the students of Hillel and Shamai forbade entirely the drinking of Stam Yeinam, even in a Jewish house.
(Since Daniel also lived in the period between the destruction of Bayis Rishon & the building of the Bayis Sheni, according to the above opinion there may have been an Isur on Stam Yeinam in the time of Haman.)
(3) There is another factor involved here. Even according to the opinions that there was no Isur at all until the students of Shamai and Hillel, nevertheless it is very possible that there was a minority of Klal Yisrael that did keep the Gezeiros that had been previously issued even though they had not been accepted yet by the majority of the people. Don't forget that Haman was no great lover of Klal Yisrael to say the least. So when he was trying to persuade Achashverosh to destroy Klal Yisrael he made up a Krumkeit to suggest that all Jews were particular about Stam Yeinam even though in reality only a minority was. In other words there was quite a significant Minhag at least not to drink Stam Yeinam and Haman ha'Rasha exploited this.
KOL TUV
Dovid Bloom
Here is a better answer to your question. The Gemara in Avodah Zarah 36a (mentioned above) asks how can we say that Daniel made the Gezeirah since we have learned that oil and wine were among the 18 Gezeiros of Shamai and Hillel (see Tosfos DH v'Shemen that the question of the Gemara is valid concerning both wine and oil). The Gemara answers that Daniel made the Gezeirah inside the city (Rashi explains that if one drinks wine in town with the Nochrim there is more worry that this may lead to intermarriage) while Beis Shamai and Beis Hillel came along later and prohibited drinking wine with them even in the fields. The Halachah follows Rav in matters concerning what is prohibited and permitted, and Rav states there that Daniel made wine forbidden for the whole of Klal Yisrael, not only for himself.
The Gezeirah of Daniel was made earlier than the reign of Achashverosh. It took place in the early years of Nevuchadnetzar's reign (see Daniel 1:8) while Achashverosh reigned later on when they were starting to build the second Beis ha'Mikdash (see Ezra 4:6). So Haman was talking about a Gezeirah binding on all Jews which had been made not long before.
KOL TUV
Dovid Bloom