More Discussions for this daf
1. Rabban Gamliel 2. Raban Gamliel Embarrassed A Student? 3. Nevu'ah After Mal'achi
4. The Get in Rebbi Meir's Beis Medrash
 DAF DISCUSSIONS - SANHEDRIN 11
1. David asks:

Greetings, again. I have seen some articles asserting that the idea that prophecy terminated with Malachi is "lav davka." The term used in Yoma and in Sanhedrin 11a is "ruach hakodesh." Why don't the braisas use the term "nevua"?

And since it only appears as braisas, doesn't that explain why some of the mekubalim held that mekubalim could have prophecy? I believe this was the case of the Ramchal, who suggested this.

But of course if this is the case, it leaves the door open to all kinds of mischief to the point where false prophecies could be explained by saying that "the generation did not earn the zechus for prophecy" and therefore there could be no end to it, and not only in the case of Shabtai Zvi, etc.

Thanks,

David Goldman

2. The Kollel replies:

1) The text of the Me'iri here is in fact "'Nevu'ah' was removed from Yisrael," not "Ru'ach ha'Kodesh." Even according to our Girsa, the Ru'ach ha'Kodesh mentioned here must be a very high form of Ru'ach ha'Kodesh, so it seems that Ru'ach ha'Kodesh can actually be equal to Nevu'ah, if it is on a very high level.

2) We see on this very page of Gemara that there can sometimes be Nevu'ah after the times of Chagi, Zecharyah, and Mal'achi. This is what happened with Shmuel ha'Katan who said on his deathbed that "Shimon and Yishmael will die by the sword...." Rashi (DH Af) writes that when he died, the Shechinah rested upon him, and he had a Nevu'ah. It seems that Nevu'ah was sometimes reached by the Tana'im at the time of their passing. See Kidushin 72a, and Rashi there (DH Ki Ka Neicha Nafshei), that Rebbi Yehudah ha'Nasi had a Nevu'ah when he died.

3) We do sometimes find that the Rishonim are described as a Navi. In Sefer ha'Yashar of Rabeinu Tam #58, there is a letter written to him by his Talmid, who was the author of the Sefer ha'Yere'im, where he describes Rabeinu Tam as "the Navi of Romrog, Rabeinu Yakov."

4) I understand this based on the Gemara in Bava Basra 12a which says that a Chacham is preferable to a Navi. Rabeinu Tam was a great sage, so he was no less than a Navi.

5) And a way to prevent the door being open to mischief is to remember the Gemara in Nedarim 38a that says that there are several conditions which have to be fulfilled for the Shechinah to rest on a person. One of them is that he has to be a Chacham, so we have to test and see if the person is of the right caliber.

Kol Tuv,

Dovid Bloom

3. David Goldman asks:

So really this has important implications vis a vis the ideas presented by people such as Ramchal which are highly controversial regardless of how highly he is regarded in history.

And if we don't have Chazal to make determinations in a period of yeridas hadoros, isn't it highly dangerous since no one is qualified to decide if something is or is not true prophecy. For example: In certain writings that he did as a bachur at the age of 22 Ramchal claimed that he attained understanding of the Zohar that not even Rashbi and the Arizal attained, and that in fact he considered himself Mashiach. He claimed to have had maggidim and to summon Eliyahu Hanavi and approach the level of Moshe Rabbenu.

4. The Kollel replies:

I do not think that having a Magid is a qualification to be Mashiach. The Beis Yosef had a Magid but I am not aware of it ever being claimed that Rav Yosef Karo was the Mashiach.

Kol Tuv,

Dovid Bloom