More Discussions for this daf
1. The heading of Tosfos 2. Ta'anas Damim and Pesach Pasu'ach 3. Baghdada
4. 100 / 200 - what did that buy? 5. Rain and Dates 6. לא תגבה אלא מן הזיבורית
DAF DISCUSSIONS - KESUVOS 10

Rabbi Wagner asks:

B"H

Shalom,

I know this is a hard question, but do you have an idea why suddenly the gemara starts to speak about the rain, and dates.

I mean on a deeper level. I understand that they started with Rav chana from Bagdath on the name almana and then carriedmon with additinal sayings by him, but why exactly those????

Rabbi Wagner, krefeld, Germany

The Kollel replies:

Shalom Rabbi Wagner! It is good to hear from you. I appreciate your thoughtful question. In my search, I didn't yet find Mefarshim who substantively connect the statements about Almanah, rain, and dates. Therefore, I feel at a loss, because I believe it would be too much of a stretch to simply suggest, for example, that they all pertain to fertility (i.e., a wife tries to bear children, the rain provides water for crops, and dates are Peros that provide us nourishment).

I do see, however, that the Sefer Toldos Tana'im v'Amora'im notes Rav Chana Bagdeta's expertise in produce, which might contribute to the attention he pays to not only dates (as that Sefer notes, based on our Daf) but also rain.

If it provides any consolation, at times Rashi himself notes the citation of apparently unrelated statements together in the Gemara just because they are from the same author.

Still, I would say that your expectation to find a link is legitimate, since other Mefarshim at times elaborate on the more substantive connection. I believe that the Maharsha and Ben Yehoyada are normally good places to look for this, but here I did not see them speak about it.

In any event, in case you are interested, Leib Moscovitz pointed out to me two secondary sources that might possibly help:

a) a list of Rashi's and Rashbam's comments on such cases, which appears in David Rosenthal's article in Mehqerei Talmud 1, p. 201 and on; and

b) such lexical-exegetical passages in the Gemara generally, which are expounded upon in p. 171 ff. For a specific reference to the passage you mentioned, check p. 176 ff.

By the way, an example of a somewhat similar phenomenon comes to mind: Some Rishonim maintain that the subject matter of Taharos will be discussed even when it doesn't relate to the mainstream topic, since it was mentioned in passing and we lack a Gemara devoted to the Masechtos of that Seder. This view is found in Rashi in Sukah (14a, DH Mishum).

In addition, as you know, the Gemara frequently says that a teaching was brought in order that we should infer a novelty "by the way" (Milsa Agav Orchei), notwithstanding the apparent lack of any substantive link between the two subjects. A quick search reveals that this phenomenon appears in the following Gemaras: Kidushin 69a regarding ascent to Israel; Sukkah 21b regarding the casual conversation of Torah scholars; Bava Kama 2b regarding an ox who gores people or animals; Beitzah 40a regarding animals drinking before being slaughtered; Eruvin 104a regarding usage of a medicinal reed in the Mikdash on Shabbos; Rosh Hashanah 15a regarding people damaging an Esrog tree by touching it; Nedarim 25a regarding the required structure of an olive press beam.

I know this is not the sort of answer you were wishing for, but I hope it at least helps give some context to the phenomenon.east helps give some context to the phenomenon.

Best wishes,

Yishai Rasowsky