We are mechuyiv to drink till we don't know the difference between Cursing Haman and Blessing Mordechai (or saying Haman should be cursed vs. Mordechai should be blessed). If you read the words carefully, there is only a very subtle difference. It's similar to the difference between staying away from bad food and trying to eat good food. There is certainly a very subtle difference between the two, but it's a matter of orientation - it's not a major difference. So why do the Poskim (Shulchan Aruch & Rashi) say that it means one has to get pretty drunk? Most people wouldn't be able to tell you the difference between these two - they are both good things to do - without drinking at all. I'm having trouble reading the sentence and understanding why it requires getting drunk.
Akiva Lane, Ramat Beit Shemesh
First, it should be emphasized that the majority of Poskim do not say that a person needs to get drunk. The Rema clearly states that it is enough for a person to drink "more than usual" until he is drowsy and when he sleeps he will not distinguish between Haman and Mordechai. Other Poskim derive the same idea from the word "until he does not distinguish," which they interpret to mean "until but not at that level," meaning that a person should still be able to distinguish (Yad Efrayim). Others derive this from the story brought afterwards in the Gemara regarding Rabah and Rebbi Zeira, who, in his drunkenness, killed Rav Zeira and had to revive him, implying that such behavior is going to far for other people (Ba'al Ha'Maor in the name of Rabeinu Efrayim).
However Rashi and the Shulchan Arukh learn from this that indeed a person should endeavor to get drunk as this is how they understand Li'Bsumei.
Second, as for your interpretation of the Gemara, the simple meaning is that he mixes up and says "Baruch Haman" or "Arur Mordechai." For such a mistake, one needs to be quite inebriated. It is also possible that Rashi is referring to a lower level of inebriation, as the higher level is termed "drunk like Lot." There is a Halachic distinction between the two; for example, regular inebriation allows one to participate in a Minyan, while inebriation like Lot would disqualify one from participation in a Minyan (Eruvin 65a).
Yoel Domb
Yoel,
From the time I sent the first question, I came up with another interpretation, that I'm attaching.
I'll be interested in your reaction.
Akiva
Drinking on Purim
March 15, 2019
Megilla 7b says somewhat cryptically: On Purim "One is obligated to drink until he don't know the difference between Orur Haman (Haman should be cursed) and Boruch Mordechai (Mordechai should be blessed).
The Gemorah doesn't explain what this 'difference' means, and the meforshim try to untangle its meaning.
Tosfos says that there was a song with alternating stanzas - one stanza cursing Haman, followed by a stanza blessing Mordechai - and that one should drink until he gets confused about what stanza he's up to.
A common misunderstanding is that it says "until he doesn't know the difference between Haman and Mordechai". If you are not inebriated, and read the sentence carefully, the words to NOT say that.
First of all, let's ask ourselves, what IS the difference between cursing Haman and blessing Mordechai?
Both are good and laudable activities - to want our enemies to fail and our good leaders to succeed.
We could say that this is similar to the difference between staying away from bad food and striving to eat good food.
It's not so easy to explain the 'difference' between these two worthwhile goals, because they are both good.
Similarly, it's not easy to explain the difference between Cursing Haman and Blessing Mordechai, because both are worthwhile and commendable actions.
But does this mean, since we might have trouble explaining this difference between Cursing Haman and Blessing Mordechai, that we don't have a reshus to drink, since we find it difficult to enunciate the difference even before we start drinking?
We would like to offer an alternative answer to this riddle.
We think that the order of the phrases is a clue: Orur Haman comes first, and Boruch Mordechai comes second.
Where does Orur Haman come before Boruch Mordechai?
Orur Haman comes before Boruch Mordechai in the story of the Megilla, where these are the two major turning points in the story.
In the first major turning point of the Megilla, Haman gets the ring of power from Achashverus.
Haman uses his newly acquired power to try to implement a plan to exterminate the Jews in all of the 127 provinces of the land.
The Gemorah in Megilla 14a says that when Haman got the ring of power, this woke up the Jews to do Tshuva more effectively than the call to do Tshuva from all of the Neviim previously.
The Jews realized that their existence was at stake, and they did massive Tshuva, beseeching Shamayim to save them from this existential threat.
This stage of the Megilla can be referred to as 'Orur Haman', when the Jews rose to the madrega of Tshuva shel Yira, propelled by fear.
They realized that Haman was their arch enemy, and they responded with a mighty effort of doing genuine Tshuva shel Yira that stormed the bastions of Shamayim, and Hash-m responded with a Yeshua.
As the events unfolded, the Jews saw that their prayers were being answered, and that their salvation was unfolding.
For example, Aschashverus wanted to express his gratitude to Mordechai for revealing a plot against the king, Haman led Mordechai on a horse to give Mordechai honor, and Esther was able to explain her concern directly to the king.
As the Jews realized that their Tshuva shel Yira was working, and that they were going to be saved, there was a second turning point, and their Tshuva was transformed into Tshuva shel Ahava.
Megilla 8:16 says "For the Jews there was light, joy, happiness and splendor', words that we repeat every Motzi Shabbos during Havdallah.
This second major turning point in the Megilla, when the Jews realized that they were going to be saved, could be referred to as 'Boruch Mordechai'.
They were profoundly joyous that their prayers had been answered and that they were going to be saved.
Therefore it's possible that "Orur Haman" and "Boruch Mordechai" can be code words for the two major turning points in the Megilla story.
"Orur Haman" could refer to the stage when Haman is ascendant, when the Jews collectively did Tshuva shel Yira.
"Boruch Mordechai" could refer to the stage when the tide changed, and Mordechai was ascendant.
At the "Boruch Mordechai" turning point, the Tshuva of the Jews turned into what might have been the greatest collective Tshuva shel Ahava that the Jewish people ever achieved in history
(That is, up until now, when we hope that we will be able to match their ability to do Tshuva shel Ahava).
Shabbos 88b says the Jews "reaffirmed their acceptance of the Torah in the days of Ahashverosh, as it is written (Esther 9:27), 'The Jews observed it and accepted it (Keemu Ve Keeblu) upon themselves'
According to this idea, "Orur Haman" refers to the stage where the Jews did Tshuva shel Yira, and "Boruch Mordechai" refers to the stage where the Jews rose to the great level of Tshuva shel Ahavah.
Now we can give a new interpretation of the statement in Megilla 7b that says we are obligated to drink until we don't know the difference between Orur Haman and Boruch Mordechai.
It means that we should drink until we can't explain the difference between Tshuva shel Yira (Orur Haman) and Tshuva shel Ahava (Boruch Mordechai).
What IS the difference between Tshuva shel Yira and Tshuva shel Ahavah?
In Yuma 86b, Resh Lakesh says that when a person does Tshuva shel Yira, his intentional sins are treated as un-intentional sins.
That's certainly a very high and wonderful level of Tshuva.
But Resh Lakesh, who was a Baal Tshuva himself, says that this doesn't hold a candle to the level of Tshuva shel Ahavah.
When a person does Tshuva shel Ahavah, his intentional sins are regarded as Mitzvas!
With this interpretation in mind, let's revisit the original perplexing sentence in Megilla 7b.
According to this interpretation, we are obligated to drink until we don't know the difference between Tshuva shel Yira (Orur Haman) when our intentional sins are treated as unintentional sins
This is then compared to the more lofty level of Tshuva shel Ahava (Boruch Mordechai). when intentional sins get transformed into Mitzvahs.
Certainly there is a great difference between these two levels of Tshuva.
According to this interpretation, we are obligated to drink until we no longer can explain the difference between these two levels of Tshuva.
This interpretation has an interesting result.
Let's say you asked an Am Haaretz, "What is the difference between Tshuva shel Yira and Tshuva shel Ahavah".
He would probably look at you quizzically, and shrug his shoulders without an answer.
Perhaps this is not a distinction he thinks much about.
So he already doesn't know the difference between these two activities.
Therefore, according to this formula he has no reshus to drink, because he starts off not knowing the difference.
But if you asked a Talmud Chachum, someone on a high spiritual level, "What is the difference is between Tshuva Shel Yira and Tshuva shel Ahava", he will exclaim, "There's an enormous difference! Can one even imagine reaching a level where one's intentional sins become Mitsvahs!"
He therefore has the reshus to drink.
The higher a person's sensitivity is to these different levels of Tshuva, the more he has the reshus to drink on Purim.
He can drink until when you ask him "What is the difference between Tshuva shel Yira and Tshuva shel Ahava", he smiles slightly inebriated and slightly confused.
Then he has reached the required level, and can stop drinking.
This litmus test about how much we can drink on Purim makes sense.
The higher our spiritual madrega, the more we can handle the wine without doing things we should not be doing.
Your explanation is very illuminating and I agree that there is a point at which the Jews seem to do Teshuvah me'Ahavah and this causes the Nochrim to convert as well (chapter 9) since "the fear of the Jews fell upon them." Thus, the Teshuvah me'Ahavah where the Jews no longer feared for their lives left the Nochrim fearing for their lives and converting, which in itself is a big Kidush Hash-m.
However, your conclusion that we have to measure the drinking according to this yardstick is also questionable, as this is not really more difficult than Arur Haman and Baruch Mordechai and we are also limiting the drinking of those who are not knowledgable on these matters, which does not seem to be implied in Halachah. There is no indication that a Talmid Chacham can drink more, and the term "Inish" refers to every man (but not to women).
Yoel Domb