https://www.sefaria.org/Nedarim.3b.6?lang=he&with=all&lang2=he
Since there is a hekesh between nezirus and nedarim, why don't we also makish double set of lashes for violating NEDER specifically for eating grapes, drinking wine, taking haircut, and defilement to dead (with one set of course for all other neders)?
I was thinking that perhaps we do in fact hold like that but it's not discussed on the page because it's simply out of scope -- the baraisa only discussed yados flowing from nezirus to nedarim via hekesh. Or perhaps we do not hold like that because this is using the hekesh twice to derive something (nedraim to nezirus to get double set on the nezirus side, and then bouncing that back to nedarim for nezirus-specific aveiros) because we don't play 'ping-pong'.
Kindly advise.
Paul Davidowitz, Long Beach
It is not clear to me what the question is here, because this question seems to imply that if someone makes a Neder that he will not eat grapes, not drink wine, not take a haircut, not defile to the dead, this automatically means he became a Nazir. However, this is not the case. He becomes a Nazir only if he specifically says, "I will be a Nazir," or some similar phrase.
Kol Tuv,
Dovid Bloom
It could very well be that the Ran actually addresses this question. But it is not clear to me.
So the question is: Does the nodair not to drink wine get 2 sets of lashes when he is ovair?
He receives only one set of lashes because just being Noder not to drink wine does not make somebody a Nazir. The first Mishnah in Maseches Nazir (2a) states that if he says "Ehei" -- "I will be" -- that makes him a Nazir, but Shmuel explains there (2b) that this applies only if a Nazir happened to be walking in front of him at the time, so we say that he means that "I will be like the person waliking in front of me." The Torah requires clear proof that a person wants to become a Nazir.
B'Hatzlachah,
Dovid Bloom
Yes yes I understand he is not a Nazir, but there is a hekesh from nazir to nodair -- so how come we ignore the hekesh in this case?
The Rambam, Hilchos Nezirus 1:2, writes that if a Nazir transgressed and shaved or touched a corpse or drank wine, he receives two sets of Malkus. One set is because he transgressed, "He shall not violate his word," which applies to every kind of Neder, and one set because he transgressed prohibitions which are unique to a Nazir. The Radbaz writes that this is because anyone who transgresses a prohibition which contains different negative commandments receives as many Malkus as the number of prohibitions that he transgressed. It seems, however, that one does not need to resort to a Hekesh in order to give these Malkus. Therefore, it is only if he is a Nazir already that he will get these Malkus.
Kol Tuv,
Dovid Bloom