12th Cycle dedication

CHULIN 86 (21 Elul) - Dedicated by Dr. Alain Bitton of Geneva, Switzerland, l'Iluy Nishmat his grandfather, Harav Chaim ben Esther Bitton, in honor of the day of his Petirah.

1)

(a)We ask why Ravin cited Rebbi as having instructed Rebbi Chiya 'Tzei N'chor', rather than 'Tzei T'rof'. On what grounds do we refute the suggestion that Rebbi holds Shechitah she'Einah Re'uyah Sh'mah Shechitah?

(b)So what do we answer? What is the Chidush of 'Tzei N'chor?

1)

(a)We ask why Ravin cited Rebbi as having instructed Rebbi Chiya 'Tzei N'chor', rather than 'Tzei T'rof'. We refute the suggestion that Rebbi holds Shechitah she'Einah Re'uyah Sh'mah Shechitah - because Rebbi Yochanan just taught us that regarding Kisuy ha'Dam, Rebbi holds ... Lo Sh'mah Shechitah, like Rebbi Shimon.

(b)So we answer that - in fact, Rebbi might well have said 'Tzei T'rof', but that he preferred to say 'Tzei N'chor', to teach us that Sh'chitas ha'Of is min ha'Torah (because had it been mi'de'Rabbanan, N'chirah would have required Kisuy, as we explained).

2)

(a)To whom was Ravin bar Aba (or Rebbi Avin bar Sh'va) referring when he said that from the time that the b'nei ha'Golah arrived in Eretz Yisrael, neither did the wine turn sour nor did the linen clothes become moth-infested? To which b'nei Golah was he referring?

(b)What other curses did Rebbi Chiya and his sons prevent?

(c)How do we reconcile this with the fact that Rebbi Chiya's own linen clothes became infested with moths?

(d)We compare this to a statement of Rav Yehudah Amar Rav. What did Rav Yehudah Amar Rav say about Chanina B'ni?

(e)To whom did Chanina B'ni refer?

2)

(a)When Ravin bar Aba (or Rebbi Avin bar Sh'va) said that from the time that the b'nei ha'Golah arrived in Eretz Yisrael, neither did the wine turn sour nor did the linen clothes become moth-infested - he was referring to Rebbi Chiya and his sons, who originated from Bavel.

(b)Rebbi Chiya and his sons also prevented - shooting-stars, earthquakes, storm-winds and thunder-storms (all of which have connotations of a curse).

(c)In spite of what we just said, Rebbi Chiya's own linen clothes became infested with moths - because the merit of Tzadikim sometimes assists others, but not themselves.

(d)And we compare this to a statement of Rav Yehudah Amar Rav quoting a daily bas-Kol - that whereas the entire world is fed on the merit of 'Chanina B'ni', Chanina himself makes do with a Kav of carobs from Erev Shabbos to Erev Shabbos.

(e)Chanina B'ni referred to - Rebi Chanina ben Dosa.

3)

(a)Under what circumstances does our Mishnah require Kisuy ha'Dam, following the Shechitah of a Chashu?

(b)In connection with which other area of Halachah is supervision effective, according to the Tana Kama?

(c)If he Shechted the one without supervision, Rebbi Meir permits the Shechitah of the other on the same day. What do the Chachamim say?

(d)What do the Chachamim nevertheless concede to Rebbi Meir?

3)

(a)Our Mishnah requires Kisuy ha'Dam following the Shechitah of a Chashu - provided they Shechted under supervision.

(b)According to the Tana Kama - Oso ve'es B'no too, takes effect if a Chashu Shechts one of the two under supervion.

(c)If he Shechted the one without supervision, Rebbi Meir permits the Shechitah of the other on the same day. According to the Chachamim, it takes effect in any event.

(d)The Chachamim do concede to Rebbi Meir however that - in the event that the Chashu Shechted the first one without supervision, the person who Shechts the second animal, does not receive Malkos.

4)

(a)What problem do we have with the Chachamim, who argue with Rebbi Meir in the Seifa of our Mishnah?

(b)What reason do we initially suggest to explain why, in the Reisha, the Rabbanan will agree that if there is no supervision, the blood will not require Kisuy?

(c)Then why, in the Seifa, do they not, by the same token, permit Shechting the child?

(d)How do we refute the suggestion that in the Reisha too, people might well say that he is only covering the blood in order to keep his yard clean?

(e)And how do we refute the second suggestion, that in a case where the owner comes to ask whether he needs to cover the blood or not, nobody will think that either?

4)

(a)The problem with the Chachamim, who argue with Rebbi Meir in the Seifa of our Mishnah (regarding Oso ve'es B'no) is - why they do not also argue in the Reisha (regarding Kisuy ha'Dam).

(b)We initially suggest that, in the Reisha, the Rabbanan will agree that if there is no supervision, the blood will not require Kisuy - because if it would, people would think that the Shechitah must have been Kasher, and will take their cue from there to eat the animal.

(c)In the Seifa, on the other hand, they do not, by the same token, permit Shechting the child - because not Shechting the child will not lead to any sin, since people will merely think that its meat is not wanted.

(d)We refute the suggestion that in the Reisha too, people might well say that he is only covering the blood in order to keep his yard clean - by countering that they will certainly not say that in a case where he Shechts into a trash-heap.

(e)We also refute the second suggestion, that in a case where the owner comes to ask whether he needs to cover the blood or not, nobody will think that either - by asking the same Kashya on the Seifa, that if he comes to ask whether he is permitted to Shecht the second animal or not, nobody will think that he is not Shechting it because he does not need its meat.

5)

(a)What reason do we finally give to explain why the Rabbanan do not argue with Rebbi Meir in the Reisha?

(b)If the Rabbanan consider the Shechitah of a Chashu to be a Shechitah mi'Safek (le'Chumra), what does Rebbi Meir say?

(c)What did Rebbi Ya'akov Amar Rebbi Yochanan say about someone who eats from the Shechitah of a Chashu?

(d)How does Rebbi Ami explain that?

5)

(a)The reason we finally give to explain why the Rabbanan do not specifically argue with Rebbi Meir in the Reisha is - because they were waiting for him to finish his statement before disputing both the Seifa and the Reisha.

(b)The Rabbanan consider the Shechitah of a Chashu to be a Shechitah mi'Safek (le'Chumra) - whereas Rebbi Meir considers it Vaday Neveilah (even le'Kula).

(c)In fact, Rebbi Ya'akov Amar Rebbi Yochanan declares - that according to Rebbi Meir, anyone who eats from the Shechitah of a Chashu is Chayav Malkos ...

(d)... because, Rebbi Ami explains - the majority of their actions are defected.

6)

(a)Rav Papa asked Rav Huna b'rei de'Rav Yehoshua (and some say the other way round) why Rebbi Ami requires a majority; why a minority will not suffice? What is the basis of Rav Papa's Kashya?

(b)What is the basis of Rebbi Meir's principle?

(c)Which Chazakah is prevalent in the current case?

6)

(a)Rav Papa asked Rav Huna b'rei de'Rav Yehoshua (some say the other way round) why Rebbi Ami requires a majority, why a minority will not suffice - since Rebbi Meir is generally Chayash le'Miy'uta (takes the minority into account) ...

(b)... because he adds it to any prevalent Chazakah ...

(c)... such as that of Eiver min ha'Chai in our case.

7)

(a)Rav Papa's Kashya is based on Rebbi Meir in a Mishnah in Taharos, where the latter declares Tahor a piece of dough that a child is holding in his hand as he plays beside a large dough. What is ...

1. ... the Miy'ut there?

2. ... the Chazakah with which it combines to render the dough Tahor?

(b)What do the Chachamim there say?

(c)What did Rav Huna b'rei de'Rav Yehoshua reply to Rav Papa? How did he differentiate between Tum'ah and Isur?

7)

(a)Rav Papa's Kashya is based on Rebbi Meir in a Mishnah in Taharos, where he declares Tahor a piece of dough that a child is holding in his hand, as he plays beside a large dough. The ...

1. ... Miy'ut there is the fact that some children do not play in the trash-heap and are not therefore Tamei.

2. ... Chazakah with which it combines to render the dough Tahor is - the Chezkas Taharah of the dough.

(b)The Chachamim, who go after the majority of children who do play in the trash-heap - declare the dough Tamei.

(c)Rav Huna b'rei de'Rav Yehoshua replied to Rav Papa that - Rebbi Meir only relies on a Miy'ut to permit a Safek Tum'ah, but not to permit a Safek Isur (to Shecht the second animal after a Chashu Shechted the first one).

86b----------------------------------------86b

8)

(a)Which two contradictory rulings did Rebbi issue regarding the Machlokes between Rebbi Meir and the Rabbanan in our Mishnah?

(b)How do we set about resolving the problem?

(c)What did Rebbi Ami tell Rebbi Aba b'rei de'Rebbi Chiya bar Aba and Rebbi Zeira when he found them standing outside the Beis-Hamedrash in the main street of Caesaria?

(d)How did they react?

8)

(a)Rebbi issued two contradictory rulings - one like Rebbi Meir (in our Mishnah) and one like the Rabbanan.

(b)We set about resolving the problem - by trying to discover which one he issued last (Hei Minaihu Achrita).

(c)When Rebbi Ami found Rebbi Aba b'rei de'Rebbi Chiya bar Aba and Rebbi Zeira standing outside the Beis-Hamedrash in the main street of Caesaria - he reminded them that he had already instructed them before not to stand outside the Beis-Hamedrash, in case they are needed inside to resolve any problems that might arise.

(d)Rebbi Zeira reacted - by entering, whilst Rebbi Aba b'rei de'Rebbi Chiya bar Aba remained outside.

9)

(a)What did Rebbi Zeira declare when, upon entering the Beis-Hamedrash, he heard them discussing precisely our She'eilah Hei Minaihu Achrita?

(b)What made him think that Rebbi Aba might solve the problem?

(c)And we resolve the She'eilah from the message that Rebbi Elazar sent to the b'nei Golah. Which message?

9)

(a)When, upon entering the Beis-Hamedrash, Rebbi Zeira heard them discussing precisely our She'eilah Hei Minaihu Achrita - he declared what a pity it was that he could not ask Rebbi Aba (who apparently, had already departed) what his father said about the matter.

(b)He thought that Rebbi Aba might solve the problem - because his father, Rebbi Chiya bar Aba, used to review all his learning in front of Rebbi Yochanan (who was the greatest authority in Eretz Yisrael at the time) every thirty days.

(c)And we resolve the She'eilah from the message that Rebbi Elazar sent to the b'nei Golah - that Rebbi ruled like Rebbi Meir (ignoring his other ruling like the Chachamim, which it seems, was stated first).

10)

(a)What does the Tana Kama of our Mishnah say about covering the blood of ...

1. ... a hundred Chayos or birds that one has just Shechted?

2. ... a Chayah and a bird that one just Shechted?

(b)What does the Tana Kama say about someone who has just Shechted a Chayah and now intends to Shecht a bird?

(c)What does Rebbi Yehudah say?

10)

(a)The Tana Kama of our Mishnah rules that - one Kisuy will suffice to cover the blood of ...

1. ... a hundred Chayos or birds that one just Shechted.

2. ... a Chayah and a bird that one just Shechted.

(b)The Tana Kama rules that someone who has just Shechted a Chayah and now intends to Shecht a bird - may go ahead and Shecht it and then cover them both with one Kisuy.

(c)Rebbi Yehudah rules that - he should first cover the blood of the Chayah before Shechting the bird.

11)

(a)What does the Tana Kama learn from the Pasuk in Acharei-Mos (in connection with Kisuy ha'Dam) - "asher Yatzud Tzeid Chayah O Of"?

(b)What does Rebbi Yehudah learn from the word "O" in the same Pasuk?

(c)On what basis does the Tana Kama disagree with Rebbi Yehudah?

11)

(a)The Tana Kama in the Beraisa learns from the Pasuk in Acharei-Mos (in connection with Kisuy ha'Dam) "asher Yatzud Tzeid Chayah O Of" that - one Kisuy will suffice for however many Chayos or Ofos one Shechts.

(b)Rebbi Yehudah learns from the word "O" in the same Pasuk that - once he has Shechted a Chayah he should cover its blood before going on to Shecht the Of (and vice-versa).

(c)The Tana Kama disagrees with Rebbi Yehudah - since he learns something else from "O", as we will now see.

12)

(a)What does the Tana Kama learn from the word "O"? What would we have thought had the Torah not inserted it?

(b)How does Rebbi Yehudah counter the Tana Kama's answer based on the word "Damo" there ("Veshafach es Damo Vechisahu be'Afar")?

(c)How does the Tana Kama refute Rebbi Yehudah's latter D'rashah based on the word "Damo" (in the next Pasuk there "Ki Nefesh Kol Basar Damo be'Nafsho hu")

12)

(a)The Tana Kama learns from the word "O" that - one is obligated to cover the blood of even a Chayah or of a bird only (and it is not necessary to Shecht them both).

(b)Rebbi Yehudah counters that - we know that already from the word "Damo" there ("Veshafach es Damo Vechisahu be'Afar").

(c)The Tana Kama however, maintains that - from the following Pasuk "Ki Nefesh Kol Basar Damo be'Nafsho hu", we see that "Damo" also has connotations of plural.

13)

(a)What did Rebbi Chanina say about Rebbi Yehudah? In which point does he concede to the Tana Kama (with regard to covering the blood of the Chayah before Shechting the bird?

(b)Ravina (or Rav Acha b'rei de'Rava) queried Rebbi Chanina from an episode that occurred with the Talmidim of Rav, who had just finished their meal, and who made a request of Rav Yeiva Saba. Who was Rav Yeiva Saba?

(c)What did they ask of him, after informing him that they wanted to Bensch?

(d)What did Rav Yeiva Saba, quoting Rav, comment?

13)

(a)Rebbi Chanina stated that Rebbi Yehudah concedes to the Tana Kama that even though he requires the Shochet to cover the blood of the Chayah before Shechting the bird - he only recites one B'rachah on them both.

(b)Ravina (or Rav Acha b'rei de'Rava) queried Rebbi Chanina however, from an episode that occurred with the Talmidim of Rav, who had just finished their meal, and who made a request of Rav Yeiva Saba - who was serving them).

(c)After informing him that they wanted to Bensch - they asked him to bring something to drink.

(d)Rav Yeiva Saba, quoting Rav, commented that - having declared their intention to Bensch (Hav lan u'Nevarech), it was forbidden to eat or drink, without reciting the appropriate B'rachah.

14)

(a)What is now the problem with Rebbi Chanina's statement from the episode with Rav Yeiva Saba?

(b)How does Rav Acha b'rei de'Rava (or Rav Ashi) reconcile Rebbi Chanina with Rav?

14)

(a)The problem with Rebbi Chanina's statement from the episode with Rav Yeiva Saba's citing of Rav is that - if Rav considers Hav lan u'Nevarech a Hefsek, that requires a fresh B'rachah before one continues to drink, then why is the Kisuy ha'Dam of a Chayah not a Hefsek that requires a fresh B'rachah before one continues to Shecht.

(b)Rav Acha b'rei de'Rava (or Rav Ashi) reconciles Rebbi Chanina with Rav - by differentiating between Hav lan u'Nevarech which is a Hefsek, and requires a fresh B'rachah before continuing to drink - because it is impossible to Bensch and drink simultaneously, and the Kisuy ha'Dam of a Chayah, which is not a Hefsek - since it is possible to cover the blood of the Chayah with one hand, and Shecht the bird simultaneously with the other.

OTHER D.A.F. RESOURCES
ON THIS DAF