1)
(a)Rav's Talmidim told Shmuel that they had learned from Rav three new definitions of Pirchus in the case of a Mesukenes. Two of them are that the animal lows during the Shechitah or defecates. What is the third?
(b)How did Shmuel react to this information?
(c)According to him, anything that an animal does not normally do in its death-throes is considered Pirchus. To explain this, what distinction did Rav Anan draw between a Mesukenes that withdraws its stretched-out leg during the Shechitah and one that initially stretches out its leg?
1)
(a)Rav's Talmidim told Shmuel that they had learned from Rav three new definitions of Pirchus in the case of a Mesukenes: that the animal lows during the Shechitah or defecates - or twitches its ear.
(b)Shmuel reacted to this information - with surprise, because he considered the third case obvious.
(c)According to him, anything that an animal does not normally do in its death-throes is considered Pirchus. To explain this, Rav Anan draws a distinction between a Mesukenes that withdraws its stretched-out leg during the Shechitah - which is a natural reaction, and one that initially stretches out its leg - which is not (and is therefore considered Pirchus).
2)
(a)What can we extrapolate from our Mishnah 'Beheimah Dakah she'Pashtah Yadah ve'Lo Hichzirah, Pesulah'?
(b)In that case, what is Shmuel coming to teach us?
2)
(a)We can extrapolate from our Mishnah 'Beheimah Dakar she'Pashtah Yadah ve'Lo Hichzirah, Pesulah' - Ha Hichzirah, Kesheirah.
(b)Shmuel is coming to teach us that - even if the animal merely withdraws its leg without first stretching it out it, it is considered Pirchus (whereas the Mishnah might otherwise have been speaking about where the animal first stretches it out and then withdraws it).
3)
(a)What does ...
1. ... Rebbi Yossi say in a Beraisa in the name of Rebbi Meir about a Mesukenes that lows whilst it is being Shechted?
2. ... Rebbi Elazar b'Rebbi Yossi say in his name even if it defecates or twitches its ear?
(b)How do we now reconcile Rav with ...
1. ... Rebbi Yossi?
2. ... Rebbi Elazar b'Rebbi Yossi?
3)
(a)Rebbi ...
1. ... Yossi in the name of Rebbi Meir, rules in a Beraisa that if a Mesukenes lows whilst it is being Shechted, it is not considered Pirchus.
2. ... Elazar b'Rebbi Yossi adds in his name - that the same will apply even if it defecates or swishes its tail.
(b)To reconcile Rav with ...
1. ... Rebbi Yossi - we establish the latter where the animal lows in a thin voice, whereas he is speaking when it lows loudly.
2. ... Rebbi Elazar b'Rebbi Yossi - we establish the latter where the dung falls next to its body, whereas he is speaking where the animal ejects it with force and it rests a distance away from its body.
4)
(a)According to Rav Chisda, the Pirchus must take place at the end of the Shechitah. What does he mean by that?
(b)How does he try to prove it from our Mishnah Beheimah Dakah she'Pashtah Yadah ... .
(c)On what grounds does Rava refute Rav Chisda's proof?
4)
(a)According to Rav Chisda, the Pirchus must take place at the end of the Shechitah, by which he means - (not the beginning, but) in the middle.
(b)And he tries to prove it from our Mishnah 'Beheimah Dakar she'Pashtah Yadah ... ' - because if it was at the end, it is unlikely that at that late stage, stretching out its leg will not suffice to prove that it is not dead unless it also withdraws it.
(c)Rava refutes Rav Chisda's proof however - on the grounds that if the animal is unable to stretch out its leg and withdraw it at the end of the Shechitah, it is a sign that it died already in the middle (as we explained in our Mishnah).
5)
(a)According to Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak, a Mesukenes requires Pirchus only at the beginning of the Shechitah. How does he prove it from Rebbi Shimon in our Mishnah 'ha'Shochet ba'Laylah u'le'Machar Matza Koslim Me'le'im Dam, Kesheirah, she'Zinkah ... '?
(b)Why is this proof only valid according to Shmuel, who interprets Koslim to mean the neck of the animal? What would we have said had it meant the walls of the abattoir?
(c)Based on Rebbi Eliezer in our Mishnah 'Dayah im Zinkah', how do we refute the suggestion that Zinuk is a stronger kind of Pirchus (and that other forms of Pirchus must indeed take place in the middle of the Shechitah)?
(d)What do we then mean when we suggest that maybe it is weaker than the Pirchus of Rabban Gamliel, but stronger than that of the Rabbanan? How will that explain Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak in view of Rebbi Eliezer's statement?
5)
(a)According to Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak, a Mesukenes requires Pirchus only at the beginning of the Shechitah. Otherwise, assuming it was required in the middle, when Rebbi Shimon says in our Mishnah 'ha'Shochet ba'Laylah u'le'Machar Matza Koslim Me'le'im Dam, Kesheirah, she'Zinkah ... ' - how can one know that the blood did not spurt out at the beginning of the Shechitah.
(b)This proof is only valid according to Shmuel however, who interprets Koslim to mean the neck of the animal. Had it meant the walls of the abattoir - then the Kashya would not have been relevant, since if the Zinuk took place at the beginning of the Shechitah, then the blood would have reached the top of the wall from the force; whereas if it reached only the lower part of the wall, then it must have taken place in the middle of the Shechitah.
(c)We refute the suggestion that Zinuk is a stronger kind of Pirchus (and that other forms of Pirchus must indeed take place in the middle of the Shechitah), from Rebbi Eliezer in our Mishnah 'Dayah im Zinkah' - which implies that if anything, Zinuk is weaker than other forms of Pirchus, and not stronger.
(d)When we suggest that maybe it is weaker than the Pirchus of Rabban Gamliel, but stronger than that of the Rabbanan - we mean that whereas Zinuk is indeed weaker than Rabban Gamliel's Pirchus (of moving both the fore and the hind legs), Rebbi Eliezer is referring to the Pirchus of the Rabbanan (who require either the one or the other). Consequently, he requires Pirchus only at the beginning of the Shechitah, but the Chachamim may well require it in the middle.
6)
(a)Ravina, citing Sama bar Chilka'i refutes this last suggestion too, from the Lashon of the Chachamim in our Mishnah 'ad she'Tefarches be'Yad O be'Regel'. What does that prove?
(b)How do we know that the Chachamim are not referring to Rabban Gamliel?
(c)What have we now proved?
(d)Sama bar Chilka'i in turn, was actually citing either the brother, or the father of bar Abubras? What was the latter's name?
(e)Why did he not quote him by his own name?
6)
(a)Ravina, citing Sama bar Chilka'i, refutes this last suggestion too, from the Lashon of the Chachamim in our Mishnah 'ad she'Tefarches be'Yad O be'Regel' - which implies that their Pirchus is stronger than that of Rebbi Eliezer.
(b)The Chachamim cannot be referring to Rabban Gamliel - because if they were, they should have said (not '*ad she'Tefarches* be'Yad O be'Regel', but) '*Keivan she'Pirch'sah* be'Yad O be'Regel'.
(c)We have now proved - that Pirchus will suffice at the beginning of the Shechitah, even according to Rebbi Eliezer, and certainly, according to Rabban Gamliel and the Rabbanan.
(d)Sama bar Chilka'i in turn, was actually citing either the brother, or the father of bar Abubras - alias Abubras ...
(e)... whom did he not quote by his own name, because he was known by his more famous son or brother.
38b----------------------------------------38b
7)
(a)Rava is the most stringent of all regarding the required time of Pirchus. What does he say?
(b)And he bases his opinion on a Beraisa. From the word "O" (in the Pasuk in Emor "Shor O Kesev"), the Tana precludes an animal of Kil'ayim from the realm of Korbanos. What is the definition of Kil'ayim with regard to animals?
(c)If "*O* Eiz" (Ibid.) come to preclude a Nidmeh (a baby born to a she-goat from a he-goat that resembles a lamb), what does the Tana learn from "ki Yivaled"?
(d)"Shiv'as Yamim" precludes an animal under eight days old from being brought on the Mizbe'ach. What does the Tana learn from "Tachas Imo"?
7)
(a)Rava, the most stringent of all, requires the Pirchus to take place - at the end of the Shechitah.
(b)And he bases his opinion on a Beraisa. From the word "O" (in the Pasuk in Emor "Shor O Kesev"), the Tana precludes an animal of Kil'ayim from the realm of Korbanos - a baby born from a ewe and a he-goat.
(c)*O* Eiz" comes to preclude a Nidmeh (a baby born to a she-goat from a he-goat that resembles a lamb), and the Tana learns from "ki Yivaled" that - a baby that is born by means of a cesarean section is precluded too.
(d)"Shiv'as Yamim" precludes an animal under eight days old from being brought on the Mizbe'ach. And the Tana learns from "Tachas Imo" that - it must not be an orphan.
8)
(a)Why can P'rat le'Yasom not come to preclude an animal whose mother died any time ...
1. ... after it is born?
2. ... before it is born?
(b)Then what must it mean?
(c)And how do we know that the Pasuk does not come to teach us that the mother needs to be alive on the eighth day, to enable the baby to be brought as a Korban?
(d)How does Rava now extrapolate from this Beraisa that the Pirchus of a Mesukenes needs to take place at the end of the Shechitah?
8)
(a)'P'rat le'Yasom' cannot come to preclude an animal whose mother died any time ...
1. ... after it is born - because it is illogical to insist that the mother must live until after its baby has been Shechted.
2. ... before it is born - because that would then be synonymous with the earlier D'rashah from "Ki Yivaled" (since it will also entail extracting it by cesarean section).
(b)It must therefore mean that - the mother died just as the baby is being born.
(c)We also know that the Pasuk is not coming to teach us that the mother needs to be alive on the eighth day, to enable the baby to be brought as a Korban - because Rebbi Yossi ha'Gelili in the Toras Kohanim learns that, despite the Pasuk in Mishpatim "Shiv'as Yamim Yihy'eh Im Imo ... ", "Tachas Imo" teaches us that the mother does not need to be alive for the entire seven days, and from " ... Im Imo ... ", that it must not die before the baby is born (he Din of Yasom).
(d)Rava now extrapolates from this Beraisa that the Pirchus of a Mesukenes must take place at the end of the Shechitah - from this last D'rashah (from "Tachas Imo"), because if it took place earlier, we would be able to ask once again that we know it already from "Ki Yivaled", since it would mean that the animal died before the baby was born.
9)
(a)Rava rules like the Beraisa that requires a small animal to stretch out its foreleg and to withdraw it, but if it performs just one of these acts, it is considered a Mesukenes. What does the Tana say about ...
1. ... its hind leg?
2. ... a large animal?
3. ... a bird? Which two things does the Tana cite, that renders a Mesukenes a Mefarcheses?
(b)On what grounds do we query Rava who rules like this Beraisa?
(c)How do we answer the Kashya?
9)
(a)Rava rules like the Beraisa that requires a small animal to stretch out its foreleg and to withdraw it, but if it performs just one of these acts, it is considered a Mesukenes. The Tana rules however, that if ...
1. ... it merely stretches out its hind leg - it is a Mefarcheses, and the same applies to ...
2. ... a large animal that performs either of the two acts (irrespective of which leg).
3. ... a bird - either twitches its ear or shakes its tail, it is a Mefarcheses.
(b)We query why Rava finds it necessary to rule like this Beraisa - when all its rulings concerning a small and large animal are already contained in our Mishnah.
(c)And we answer - because its rulings concerning a bird are not.
10)
(a)The Tana Kama of our Mishnah validates a Shechitah that one performs on behalf of a Nochri. Rebbi Eliezer declares it Pasul. What if one merely intends to give the Nochri the diaphragm?
(b)What is Rebbi Eliezer's reason?
(c)What Kal va'Chomer does Rebbi Yossi make from Mukdashin, where a Machsheves Pigul renders the animal Pasul?
10)
(a)The Tana Kama of our Mishnah validates a Shechitah that one performs on behalf of a Nochri. Rebbi Eliezer declares it Pasul - even if one merely intends to give the Nochri the diaphragm ...
(b)... because he takes for granted that a Nochri has the intention that his animal (or whatever he owns in it) is being Shechted for his Avodah-Zarah (S'tam Machsheves Nochri la'Avodas-Kochavim).
(c)Rebbi Yossi learns a Kal va'Chomer from Mukdashin, where a Machsheves Pigul renders the animal Pasul, yet we do not contend with the Machshavah of the owner (only the Shochet), how much more so will that be the case by Chulin, where a Machshaves Pigul does not render the animal Pasul.
11)
(a)Assuming that both the Tana Kama and Rebbi Eliezer concur with the opinion of Rebbi Eliezer b'Rebbi Yossi, who holds in a Beraisa that the Machsheves Pigul of the owner of a Korban renders it Pigul, what is the basis of their Machlokes?
(b)In which case then, will the Chachamim concede to Rebbi Eliezer that the Shechitah is Pasul?
(c)In which point does Rebbi Yossi then argue with the Tana Kama?
11)
(a)Assuming that both the Tana Kama and Rebbi Eliezer concur with the opinion of Rebbi Eliezer b'Rebbi Yossi, who holds in a Beraisa that the Machsheves Pigul of the owner of a Korban renders it Pigul, the basis of their Machlokes is - whether S'tam Machsheves Nochri (where the Nochri did not say anything) la'Avodas-Kochavim (Rebbi Eliezer) or not (the Chachamim).
(b)The Chachamim will concede however, that the Shechitah is Pasul - if the Nochri actually declares that his animal is being Shechted in the name of his Avodah-Zarah.
(c)Rebbi Yossi disagrees with the latte ruling - because he does not hold of the concept Zeh Mechashev, ve'Zeh Oveid (that a Korban can become Pigul through the Machshavah of someone other than the Shochet, even the owner).
12)
(a)Assuming that the Tana Kama argues with Rebbi Eliezer even in a case where they actually heard the Nochri specifically state 'Le'shem Avodah-Zarah', what is then the basis of their Machlokes?
(b)In which point does Rebbi Yossi then argue with the Tana Kama?
12)
(a)Assuming that the Tana Kama argues with Rebbi Eliezer even in a case where they actually heard the Nochri specifically state 'Le'shem Avodah-Zarah', the basis of their Machlokes will be - whether we learn Chutz (Chulin) from P'nim (Kodshim [Rebbi Eliezer]) or not (the Tana Kama).
(b)Whereas Rebbi Yossi holds - that even by Kodshim we do not say Zeh Mechashev, ve'Zeh Oveid.
13)
(a)From where do we learn that the Shechitah of a Shochet to Avodah-Zarah is considered Zivchei Meisim?
(b)And from where does Rebbi Eliezer b'Rebbi Yossi learn Zeh Mechashev ve'Zeh Oveid by Kodshim?
(c)How does Rebbi Yossi then explain "Vehikriv ha'Makriv"?
13)
(a)We learn that the Shechitah of a Shochet to Avodah-Zarah is considered Zivchei Meisim from the Pasuk in Tehilim "Zivchei Meisim" (since the word 'Zevach' means Shechitah).
(b)And Rebbi Eliezer b'Rebbi Yossi learns Zeh Mechashev ve'Zeh Oveid by Kodshim - from the Pasuk in Korach "Vehikriv ha'Makriv" (which refers to the owner).
(c)According to Rebbi Yossi however - "Vehikriv ha'Makriv" refers to the person who actually brings the Korban on the Mizbe'ach.