STANDING FOR CHACHAMIM [Kevod Chachamim: standing]




R. Yochanan wanted to see the Kordina'ah Dinar. He did not let the moneychanger stand up for him.


R. Yochanan: Workers are not Reshai (allowed) to stand for Chachamim.


Question (Mishnah): (When people come bearing Bikurim), all workers stand for them, greet them and bless them.


Answer (R. Yochanan): Workers stand for people bearing Bikurim, but they don't stand for Chachamim.


Kidushin 33a (Beraisa) Suggestion: Perhaps one must give money to a Chacham to honor him!


Rejection: "You will rise and honor" - just like one does not lose money by rising, one need not lose by honoring.


Question: Perhaps the verse includes a man drilling through pearls (to thread them, which is a very lucrative job), and he must stop working (and lose money) to rise!


Answer: The verse equates rising to honoring. Just like one need not desist (from working) to honor (honor connotes through gifts or verbally), also to rise. Just like one does not lose money by rising, one need not lose through honoring.


From here we learn that workers are not Reshai to rise for Chachamim.


(Beraisa - R. Shimon ben Elazar): "Zaken and you will fear" teaches that he should not unnecessarily obligate people to stand for him.


(Abaye): If the Zaken takes a longer route to avoid obligating people to stand for him, his life will be lengthened.


Abaye and R. Zeira used to take longer routes.


32b (Beraisa) Suggestion: Perhaps one must rise (for a Chacham) even in the privy or bathhouse!


Rejection: "You will rise and honor" - the Mitzvah to rise is only in a place fit to honor him.


Question: Once, in the bathhouse, R. Shimon bar Rebbi walked by R. Chiya (and on another occasion, Bar Kapara), who had learned from him, yet he did not rise for R. Shimon. R. Shimon complained to Rebbi.


Rebbi: Perhaps he was thinking about what you taught him, and he did not notice you.


Inference: Had he noticed, he would be obligated to rise!


Answer: One must rise in the outer room of a bathhouse, but not in the inner room.


Support: Surely it was in the outer room, for one may not think about Torah in the inner room!


Rejection: Sometimes a Chacham cannot avoid thinking about Torah there.


Suggestion: Perhaps one may close his eyes, as if he does not see the Zaken (to avoid having to rise)!


Rejection: "You will rise and you will fear (Hash-m)" - regarding Mitzvos in which others cannot perceive one's intent, it says "you will fear Hash-m (who knows your intention)".


Question: Does the Beraisa discuss Resha'im?!


Answer: It means, perhaps one may close his eyes before the Chacham is so close that he will need to rise if he sees him. "You will rise and you will fear" teaches that one may not.


(Beraisa): Rising that shows honor is when the Chachamim is within four Amos.


(Abaye): This is for a Chacham who is not his primary Rebbi. For one's primary Rebbi, he must rise as soon as he can see him.


Abaye would rise as soon as he saw the ear of the donkey on which Rav Yosef (his Rebbi) used to ride.




Rambam (Hilchos Talmud Torah 6:2): We do not stand for Chachamim in a privy or bathhouse.


Lechem Mishneh: Why didn't the Rambam specify that the exemption to stand is only in the inner room of a bathhouse?


Kesef Mishneh: The Rambam did not need to specify, for he taught about a bathhouse together with a privy, i.e. the part of a bathhouse that is like a privy. In a place where one may think about Torah, he must stand.


Lechem Mishneh: It seems that we exempt even one's primary Rebbi. Regarding rising that has honor, there is reason to distinguish a Chacham from one's Rebbi. Since it is known that he is his Rebbi, it is recognized that he stands for him even outside of four Amos. The exemption in a bathhouse is because it is a filthy place. This does not depend on whether he is his Rebbi. This is why the Gemara did not answer that the case of R. Chiya was different, for R. Shimon was his Rebbi.


Rambam (ibid.): Workers need not stand for Chachamim while working.


Kesef Mishneh: The Rambam and Tosfos explain 'workers are not Reshai to stand' to mean that they are not obligated.


Rambam (ibid.): "You will rise and honor" teaches that just like one need not lose money in order to honor, he need not lose in order to rise.


Lechem Mishneh: The Rambam is astounding. (He says like the Beraisa.) The Gemara said the opposite of what the Beraisa said. The Beraisa said 'just like one does not lose money by rising, one need not lose by honoring.' The Gemara rejected this, for perhaps the verse includes one who drills through pearls! Rather, just like one need not cease (work) to honor, also to rise. Just like one does not lose money by rising, one need not lose by honoring. With difficulty, we can say that 'without loss of money' means ceasing to work. This does not apply to honoring.


Rebuttal (Pischei Teshuvah YD 244:3, citing Arba'ah Turei Even): We exempt only for a Chacham or Rebbi who is not Muvhak (his primary Rebbi from whom he learned most of his Chachmah). One must fear Rabo Muvhak, so one must rise for him even in a bathhouse. The same applies to one's father. Likewise, workers must rise for Rabo Muvhak. This is why the Rambam did not bring these exemptions in Perek 5, for there he discusses Rabo Muvhak. Likewise, the Shulchan Aruch did not bring these exemptions in Siman 242, for there it discusses Rabo Muvhak.


Birkei Yosef (YD 244:7 DH uv'Emes): It was a weak Hava Amina that one must honor with money. Really, it is obvious that we do not. Therefore, we learn rising from Hidur. This is why the Rambam first taught that one need not rise in a bathhouse or privy, which the Gemara taught after deriving that Hidur is without loss (for really, there was no need to derive this.


Rambam (ibid.): One may not close his eyes before the Chacham stands in front of him, so he will not see him and not need to rise. We learn from "you will fear Hash-m."


Kesef Mishneh: The Rambam means like the Gemara answers, that one may not close his eyes in order that he will not see the Chacham.Poskim


Rosh (Kidushin 1:53): Workers may not stand if they are working for others. Alternatively, we discuss people working for themselves. They are not 'Reshai', i.e. they are not obligated. In Erchin 28b, 'Reshai' means obligated. Abaye would stand when he saw the ear of Rav Yosef's donkey, for we hold that one who rides is like one who walks. Therefore, he was obligated to stand.


Ran (Chulin 16b DH Amar R. Yochanan): Rashi explains that one working for others may not rise. This is why R. Yochanan did not let the moneychanger stand for him. If Reuven gave merchandise to Shimon to sell and share the profits, Shimon may not engage in his own work, for then he cannot oversee the store properly. The word 'Reshai' forced Rashi to say so. However, in Kidushin it connotes that the law applies even to one who works for himself. We learned from the Hekesh of rising to honoring that workers are not Reshai to stand for Chachamim. Perhaps also there it refers to one working for others. Since one is exempt when working for himself, he may not do so when working for others. If one were obligated when working for himself, he would be obligated when working for others. Others say that 'Reshai' means obligated. The Rambam explains like this. Perhaps even regarding one's one work he is not permitted. Since letter of the law he is exempt, if one will stand, it will seem that others (working for others - PF) disgrace Chachamim.




Shulchan Aruch (YD 244:4): We do not stand for Chacham in a privy or bathhouse. "You will rise and honor" discusses rising that has honor. This refers to the inner room. We stand for a Chacham in the outer room.


Beis Yosef (DH Ein): The Gemara says that rising in the outer room is honorable.


Shach (3): The Shulchan Aruch connotes that one rises in the middle room, for one may greet people with Shalom there (OC 84:1).


Birkei Yosef: Rashi says that the Torah mentioned 'Hidur' to teach that one need not stand from afar or in the bathhouse. This is difficult, for Rashi (Vayikra 19:32) brings from Toras Kohanim that Hidur is not sitting or speaking in his place or contradicting his words. This shows that Hidur is a matter by itself! (It is not merely a detail of how to rise). However, automatically it teaches about rising. In the Gemara, Rashi says that Hidur merely excludes (from afar or in the bathhouse). The Poskim did not bring the Toras Kohanim.


Shulchan Aruch (5): A worker need not stand for Chacham while working. If he is working for others and wants to be stringent and stand, he may not.


Beis Yosef (DH Ein): Also Tosfos (33a DH Ein) and the Ran (Kidushin 13a DH mi'Kan) gave the Rosh's answers. The Tur brought both answers, for both apply. The Rambam holds like the second answer.


Shulchan Aruch (6): It is improper for a Chacham to burden the Tzibur and intend to pass in front of them so they will stand for him. Rather, he takes a short path, so they will not need to stand much. If he can take a detour so he will not need to pass in front of them, this is a merit for him.


Shach (4): This was only in the days of the Gemara, or even nowadays in places where they sit on the ground. The same applies whenever it is a burden. Where they sit on benches, it is not a burden to stand, and we are not concerned. In any case he should not intend to pass in front of them so they will stand for him.

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