More Discussions for this daf
1. A Mesorah for a Chayah 2. Non-Kosher Animals 3. Llama and kangaroo
4. Upper Teeth 5. Signs of Kosher Birds
DAF DISCUSSIONS - CHULIN 59

Avrohom Meyer Kohn asked:

Your answer below seems difficult to accept, as the Torah was written for all generations, for all locations, wherever Jews may find themselves located. The Gemora itself seems to be asking that maybe a Jew will be in some strange place and will find a strange animal that was not previously known to mankind that chews its cud. The Gemora then refers to the Ruler of the WORLD. The WORLD, not just Asia.

Here are your comments, for easy reference:

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4) ANIMALS THAT CHEW THEIR CUD BUT DO NOT HAVE SPLIT HOOVES

QUESTION: The Gemara infers from the verses in the Torah that list the animals that have only one sign of a Kosher animal (Vayikra 11:4-7) that these are the only animals that possess one sign.

However, empirical observation shows that the llama also possesses one sign, as it chews the cud but lacks true split hooves. Why does the Torah not mention the llama?

ANSWERS:

(a) Perhaps the llama may be classified as a type of camel, and the Torah includes it when it mentions the camel. This approach, however, is not satisfactory, because the llama and camel are considerably dissimilar. Furthermore, there are other animals -- such as kangaroos and capybaras-- that have only one characteristic but that cannot be subsumed into the Torah's categories.

(b) Perhaps the Gemara refers only to the animals in the region of Asia, where Eretz Yisrael, the area where the Torah was intended to be fulfilled in its entirety, is located. The llama, kangaroo, and capybara all live in South America and Australia, and not in Asia.

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Avrohom Meyer Kohn, Los Angeles, CA USA

The Kollel replies:

(a) Rav Chisda was not necessarily talking about all possible "Midbaros" where a Jew might one day walk. Rather, he is talking about a Jew walking in the Midbar of a region which Jews were commonly known to populate. The Pasuk may certainly be referring to the regions in which Jewish people lived and settled, and so Rav Chisda would have to be referring to them as well.

(b) Perhaps you will ask that it does not help to suggest that Rav Chisda is referring only to "Jewish" regions. Someone might import llamas even to Asia, and then Rav Chisda's "proof of Kashrus" will no longer be true.

However, one may retort that even according to the simple understanding of the Gemara, Rav Chisda's "proof of Kashrus" is not perfectly reliable. What would be if someone came across a mutated non-Kosher animal without upper teeth (or a Ben Gamal that is mutated beyond recognition), or a non-Kosher animal that is genetically engineered not to have upper teeth?

It must be that Rav Chisda was not taking into account every conceivable scenario. He was referring to the commonplace situation in which Jews wander in Eurasian deserts and come across local fauna.

(c) Regarding the words "Shalit b'Olamo" -- of course Hash-m is Shalit over the entire Olam, without exception. But this does not imply that the Beraisa is talking about animals living in every place in the world. Rather, the Ribono Shel Olam, as Master over everything in the world, certainly knows every animal that exists in any particular region -- and He is telling us that we need not worry about other animals chewing their cud without split hooves in our locales. (Should the Gemara refer to the Ribono Shel Olam as "Master of such-and-such a place" instead?)

Best wishes,

Mordecai Kornfeld