More Discussions for this daf
1. Tzelafchad's sin 2. Shem/Shimon 3. Rashi's explanation of Baisa K'man Dmalei
4. Revealing secrets of the Torah 5. Revealing What the Torah Concealed 6. Ten Tefachim
7. Who was the Mekoshesh 8. באומר כל מקום שתרצה תנוח 9. רש"י ד"ה כמאן דמלי
DAF DISCUSSIONS - SHABBOS 97

Aryeh Goldman asks:

Thanks so much for the service!

The gemara says:

ת"ר מקושש זה צלפחד וכן הוא אומר (במדבר טו, לב) ויהיו בני ישראל במדבר וימצאו איש וגו' ולהלן הוא אומר (במדבר כז, ג) אבינו מת במדבר מה להלן צלפחד אף כאן צלפחד דברי ר' עקיבא אמר לו ר' יהודה בן בתירא עקיבא בין כך ובין כך אתה עתיד ליתן את הדין אם כדבריך התורה כיסתו ואתה מגלה אותו ואם לאו אתה ואלא הא גמר גזירה שוה ג"ש לא גמר אלא מהיכא הוה (במדבר יד, מד) מויעפילו הוה מוציא לעז על אותו צדיק

So my questions are: 1. The whole discussion about the ג״ז needs עיון because even if רבי יהודה בן בתירה didn't have the mesorah of the ג״ז, Rabbi Akiva apparently did so he had the right to be Doresh the pasuk as he did. 2. Please see Tosfos ד״ה גזירה. - Why can't you just say that Rabbi Akiva didn't use one of ג״ש that רבי יהודה did for something else and instead used it for this derasha?

Aryeh Goldman, Flushing, NY

The Kollel replies:

1. Tosfos writes that Rebbi Yehudah ben Beseira disagreed with Rebbi Akiva's Mesorah and maintained that it did not fit with the correct number of Gezeirah Shavahs in the Torah. Rebbi Yehudah is now pointing out that not only has Rebbi Akiva got the calculations wrong, even worse is that this error leads to Rebbi Akiva speaking unjustified bad things about Tzelafchad.

2. An additional point is worth making here. See Tosfos to Bava Basra 119b, DH Afilu, who cites the Midrash that Tzelafchad did what he did l'Shem Shamayim. This is because it had already been decreed upon them, after the Meraglim episode, that they would not enter Eretz Yisrael, and the people might have thought that they need not keep the Mitzvos either. This is why Tzelafchad transgressed the laws of Shabbos. His intention was that he should be punished for his transgression so that everyone would know that they must still keep the Mitzvos.

3. This may be what Rebbi Yehudah said to Rebbi Akiva: Even if you are correct that Tzelafchad desecrated Shabbos, you should at least make the point that he did so in order to prevent everyone else from desecrating Shabbos.

All the best,

Dovid Bloom