More Discussions for this daf
1. 71 judges in the case of a sotah 2. Devarim she'Eno ra'uy 3. Sha'ar Nikanur
4. Moshe's Tefilah for Yehudah 5. Tearing the Clothing of the Sotah 6. Atzmos Yehudah
7. Isur Sotah to Her Husband 8. Hasra'ah by Eidei Stirah 9. Why Two Talmidei Chachamim?
DAF DISCUSSIONS - SOTAH 7

Yisroel Stein asks:

Can someone please answer the following question?

We learned in Masechta Nazir on daf 45B, that the gemorah brings a proof from Mesechta Sotah that we are not worried that the pirchei Kehunah will be aroused when they see the Sota being abused, because she is being made unattractive. Yet we just learned on daf 7A in the mishna in Sotah, that if the sotah has pretty hair or if her "heart is pretty" then we do not uncover her. So it is clear that we are concerned about the perchei Kehuna being aroused?

Thank you,

Yisroel Stein

The Kollel replies:

The opinion on 7a that you cited is that of Rebbi Yehudah, while the Chachamim in the Mishnah maintain that we are not concerned if her clothes get torn. The Halachah follows the Chachamim. The Gemara in Nazir 45b also follows the Chachamim who maintain that we are not worried that the Pirchei Kehunah will be aroused since the Sotah is being made unattractive.

Kol Tuv,

Dovid Bloom

The Kollel adds:

I found that this question is asked by the sefer "Minchah Chareivah" on Maseches Sotah 8a (page 36, DH v'Yesh L'Ayen), by Rav Pinchas Epstein zt'l.

1) He also writes that the Gemara in Nazir 45b must follow the opinion of the Rabanan, that the Sotah was always uncovered.

However, he continues that this presents a problem in light of the Gemara in Sotah 8b. The problem is as follows. The Gemara on 8a asks a contradiction in the position of the Rabanan. On one hand, they maintain that a woman is not stoned naked in order to prevent bad thoughts, but on the other hand the Sotah is uncovered. The Gemara (beginning of 8b) answers that there is no contradiction because there is a Mitzvah of "v'Nivasru Kol Hanashim" (Yechezkel 23:48) -- that all the women should be educated in modesty. Therefore, it is necessary to shame the Sotah by revealing her. Concerning the stoned woman, the very fact that she is executed is sufficient education and there is no need to shame her further.

2) Now that we know that according to the Rabanan there is an idea of "v'Nivasru" -- of educating the public -- this would seem to pose a problem with the Gemara in Nazir 45b. What is Aba Chanan's question on Rebbi Shimon Shezuri, that just as we are not concerned that the Pirchei Kehunah may be aroused by the Sotah, we also should not be concerned about the Nezirah shaving in public? Rebbi Shimon Shezuri could easily answer this question by saying that we deliberately do the Sotah procedure in public to fulfil "v'Nivasru" -- in order to educate all the women! The fact that Rebbi Shimon Shezuri did not give this answer seems to suggest the opposite to what we thought at first; that Rebbi Shimon agrees with Rebbi Yehudah and therefore cannot reject Aba Chanan's proof from Sotah to Nezirah, merely because of the Mitzvah of v'Nivasru!

3) The answer to this problem seems to be given by the Me'iri, cited by the Minchah Chareivah. The Me'iri in Sotah (immediately before he cites the Mishnah about "If she was wearing white clothes," end of 7a) writes, "The Halachah follows the Chachamim, that desire is not frequent with a matter which is chiefly intended to disgrace the Sotah, whose beautiful clothes have already been replaced by ordinary clothes." The Me'iri is telling us how to create the balance between the different ideas mentioned in our Sugya about the possibility of the Pirchei Kehunah being aroused on one hand, and the necessity to disgrace the Sotah on the other hand. He states that the Halachic conclusion is that bad thoughts are not common when the chief intention of the activity is to disgrace the Sotah.

4) Accordingly, we remain with our original answer, that the Gemara on 45b is consistent with Rabanan, but now we have additional explanation to support this. The Halachah follows the Rabanan that we are not concerned that the Pirchei Kehunah will be aroused, since the reason we are doing the Sotah process is in order to emabarass her.

Kol Tuv,

Dovid Bloom

Sam Kosofsky asks:

Rabbotai,

Doesn't R' Yehuda's view make that part of the procedure subjective? Who is to say which woman's hair or "heart," is pretty? The kohain who is leading the procedure? It can't be a "beauty contest," Rachaman l'tzlan. Might not other kohanim consider a woman who he thinks not attractive to be attractive?

B'kavod,

Sam Kosofsky

The Kollel replies:

1) The Chasdei David, on the Tosefta, writes that because of this problem, one has to say that Rebbi Yehudah means that one does not expose any woman. However, the Chasdei David concedes that the words of Rebbi Yehudah do not fit well with this explanation.

2) The Minchah Chareivah, by Rav Pinchas Epstein zt'l, writes that it is impossible to explain as the Chasdei David seeks to explain. However, the Minchah Chareivah writes that it is not difficult to understand Rebbi Yehudah's opinion, because if the Kohen sees from her face or hair that she is pretty, he knows in advance that he should not tear the clothes of such a woman. Alternatively, it could be that we have been informed already by other women that this Sotah is pretty, and again we know in advance to be careful.

3) The Hagahos and Chidushei Radal (Rav David Luria), printed in the back of most standard editions of the Gemara, writes that the Kohen starts tearing her clothes but if he sees that she is pretty he stops before he reveals her heart and hair. According to this, the Kohen is entrusted with the job of deciding who might be a woman likely to attract either himself or other Kohanim and we rely on him to refrain from the tearing before any harm has taken place.

4) I think we should bear in mind what we saw in the previous reply in the name of the Me'iri, that desire is not common with a matter which is chiefly intended to disgrace the Sotah. Even though the Me'iri wrote this in the context of the opinion of the Rabanan, it is probable that Rebbi Yehudah would agree to this idea, at least before the tearing of her clothes has started.

Kol Tuv,

Dovid Bloom

The Kollel adds:

I posed this question to a Gadol and he replied that it is only what is necessary that does not harm the onlookers. Therefore, the Sotah may be placed in a public place because this is a crucial part of the Mitzvah of Sotah, while Rebbi Yehudah maintains that it is not necessary to reveal the heart of an attractive Sotah, as this is not an essential part of the Mitzvah. Since it is not necessary, the Mitzvah of the Torah will not necessarily protect the onlooker from negative spiritual consequences.

Dovid Bloom