The Gemoro (here and elsewhere, e.g. Beitsa 20a) discusses Semicha on Korbonos on Yom Tov. Beis Shammai hold Semicha does not need to be immediately prior to Shechita, hence Semicha can be done Erev Yom Tov and one need not transgress the Issur Derabonon of Mishtamesh BeBaalei Chayim. Beis Hillel hold that the Semicha does have to be immediately prior to Shechita, hence to permit Semicha the Chachomim permitted Mishtamesh BeBaalei Chayim.
My question is why do we not say Ein Shevus BeMikdash here? This would result that according to Beis Shammai there would not be a need to do the Semicha the day before but one could do Semicha as usual. Also according to Beis Hillel the Chachomim would not need a special Heter to permit Semicha. (This could in fact be the p'shat in Beis Hillel I suppose, but Rashi does not actually say Ein Shvus BeMikdash)
I know that we do not say Ein Shevus BeMikdash for anything in the Mikdash, but could it not apply here (is it only for Kohanim maybe, who are Zerizim?)
Kol Tuv
Mark Bergman Manchester UK
Excellent question! It seems clear from Eruvin 103a that Ein Shevus b'Mikdash goes further than Kohanim Zerizim, and applies even to those who are not Zerizin.
In answer to your question, yes, Tosfos Shabbos 123b DH Lo Sidur, and elsewhere, points out that there were a number of Shevusim that were not permitted in the Mikdash. However, he does not prove his point from here. Perhaps the Rabanan only permitted Shevus if it was necessary to perform a Shevus in order to do an Avodah. Since, according to Beis Shamai, there exists the option of performing Semichah before Yom Tov, and not having to perform a Shevus on Yom Tov at all, it is preferable to do the Semichah before Yom Tov.
You are referring to the Turei Even on 16b -- Yeyasher Kochacha! He indeed asks this question and one of his answers is, as we cited from Tosfos above, that there are some Shevus decrees which were applied in the Mikdash. (However, we already pointed out that it does not seem that Tosfos learned that way in our case.)
He himself doesn't accept this answer.
His other answer is that since Semichah can be performed before the Shechitah, according to Beis Shamai,it can also be performed outside of the Azarah. The Turei Even then states that any Shevus which can be done out of the Mikdash, was not permitted even in the Mikdash, citing Eruvin 101 as a source.
However, this does not seem to be the way Rashi learned there. Rashi explains that cutting the Yabeles is not a Shevus d'Mikdash, since "everyone checks his Pesach and fixes [its Mumim] in his house, and only afterwards brings it to the Mikdash" (DH Ela Amar Rav Yosef). It is clear that the reason for
the prohibition is because it is done outside of the Mikdash. (Even if there is a prohibition to cut the Mum off in the Mikdash, it is only because it is usually done out of the MIkdash. There is no reason at all to believe that Semichah was normally done out of the Mikdash, though according to Beis Shamai.)
He obviously interperts the idea of Shvus Mikdosh Bmdinah where it can be done Bmdina.
In short, the Turei Even's answers are problematic. I think the simplest answer is what I wrote ealier; that the Rabanan did not permit a Shevus in the Mikdash if it could be easily avoided (e.g. by doing Semichah before Yom Tov, according to Beis Shamai). After searching around a bit, I was proud to find that the PNEI YEHOSHUA (Beitzah 20a end of DH v'Teda) hints to this
answer.
However this Shita (Efshar La'soisoi Merev Yom Tov) he questions whether this would resolve what would be if one forgot and wasn't Soimich, (see also his comments on Daf 7b (D"H Beis Shamai Oimrim)), and see the Raav on the Mishoh In Pssochim 6:1, and Lechem Mishne Hil. Korban Pessach 1:18, in addition (WRT Efshar Lasois Bheter) see Kesef Mishnoh and Mishneh Lmelech end of Hil. Beis Habchira, also big Arichus in Sdei Chemed Kllolim Aleph 283 (also in Asifas Dinim).
Another possibility - R' Yosef Engel in his Gilyonei Hashas is Mdayeik that according to the Rambam in Pirush Hamishnayois Smichoh involves 2 Shvusim a) using a living animal b) Yegia as it requires Kol Kochoi.
Kol Tuv
Yitzchok Zirkind
"Kol Kocho" does not mean to press on it with great strength, but rather to lean one's body on the animal until one is completely supported by the animal. Thus the words of Rav Yosef Engel are not clear.
Mordecai Kornfeld
See the Turei Even Al Asar.
Kol Tuv
Yitzchok Zirkind
You are referring to the Turei Even on 16b -- Yeyasher Kochacha! He indeed asks this question and one of his answers is, as we cited from Tosfos above, that there are some Shevus decrees which were applied in the Mikdash. (However, we already pointed out that it does not seem that Tosfos learned that way in our case.)
His other answer is that since Semichah can be performed before the Shechitah, according to Beis Shamai,it can also be performed outside of the Azarah. The Turei Even then states that any Shevus which can be done out of the Mikdash, was not permitted even in the Mikdash, citing Eruvin 101 as a source.
I could not find any hint of a source to this statement on that Daf. Perhaps he was referring to Eruvin 103a, where the Gemara did discuss the laws of Ein Shevus b'Mikdash. However, the Gemara there did not seem to say what he claims that it says. To the contrary, the Gemara says that a Shevus involving Kodshim was not permitted outside of the Mikdash, implying that inside of the Mikdash that very Shevus would be permitted. (Even that is only the opnion of some of the Amora'im; thus this answer at best would only explain our Mishnah according to some of the Amora'im.) Where did the Turei Even find a basis for stating that a Shevus which could be performed out of the Mikdash was not permitted even in the Mikdash?
Perhaps he inferred that from the fact that the Mishnah creates a blanket prohibition against removing a Yabeles in order to be Machshir a Korban. If the prohibition only applies out of the Mikdash, the Mishnah should have specified that it is permitted in the Mikdash. It must be that it is prohibited anywhere, since it could be done out of the Mikdash, as the Turei Even says.
However, this does not seem to be the way Rashi learned there. Rashi explains that cutting the Yabeles is not a Shevus d'Mikdash, since "everyone checks his Pesach and fixes [its Mumim] in his house, and only afterwards brings it to the Mikdash" (DH Ela Amar Rav Yosef). It is clear that the reason for the prohibition is because it is done outside of the Mikdash. (Even if there is a prohibition to cut the Mum off in the Mikdash, it is only because it is usually done out of the MIkdash. There is no reason at all to believe that Semichah was normally done out of the Mikdash, though according to Beis Shamai.)
In short, the Turei Even's answers are problematic. I think the simplest answer is what I wrote ealier; that the Rabanan did not permit a Shevus in the Mikdash if it could be easily avoided (e.g. by doing Semichah before Yom Tov, according to Beis Shamai). After searching around a bit, I was proud to find that the PNEI YEHOSHUA (Beitzah 20a end of DH v'Teda, 21a DH v'Savrei Beis Shamai) hints to this answer.
-Mordecai