More Discussions for this daf
1. Cities that are near walled cities 2. 13 Adar 3. Questions
4. Gezeirah Shaveh must be handed down 5. Purim in Har Nof 6. Villagers reading the Megilah early on market days
7. Reading the Megilah on the 15th of Adar 8. Reading the Megilah 9. When the Megilah may be read on the 11th, 12th, and 13th
10. "Mentazpach" Tzofim Amarum 11. The end-letters MeNaTZPaCH 12. Rebbi Yehudah
13. Women Who Reside in the Kefarim 14. Heichan Remizah? 15. Rebbi Yehoshua ben Korchah argues with Rebbi Akiva?
16. End Letters 17. Tosfos 18. Rabbi Yehoshua Ben Korcha's Rebbe
19. Gezeirah Shavah of Perazi 20. Issues of Beis Din 21. Menatzpa"Ch
22. Various Questions 23. Ta'anis Esther in villages 24. Limiting the reading of the Megillah to the 14th
25. Walled city 26. רש״י ד״ה כדכתיב להיות עושים 27. תענית אסתר בכפרים
DAF DISCUSSIONS - MEGILAH 2

Yehudah Relis asked:

Shalom,

The gemorrah 2A states that Rabbi Yehuda said "When? (were the chamimim mekel on the villages- Rashi) - when the years were proper (misabrin by Bais Din- Rashi) and Yisrael dwelled on their land (and the messengers reached to the end of Eretz Yisrael by Pesach -Rashi) however in this day(when this stopped and Yisrael is spread out and the messengers didnt reach them -Rashi)...its only read in its proper time" because villagers will say the Megillah is read on the 14th of Adar and determine Pesach based on 30 days after Purim since the shluchim might not reach them and they would end up eatting chometz on Pesach -Rashi

When Purim first happened most of Yisroel was in Bavel. Even later the gemorrah in Rosh Hashana 18 says Shluchim were sent out (and Rashi says to galus) on 6 months to inform when the new Chodesh was. So according to Rashi when was the period of time that the kulah applied?

Furthermore since the issur of chometz starts in the morning on the 14th of Nissan and the heter for the villagers would result in them reading possibly earlier than the 14th of Adar and as early as the 11th, but not later, it would seem that in almost all situations where ever the messengers could reach in Adar by night to inform the villagers to read earlier than the 14th, they would also reach in Nissan by 14th during the day. So what was the necessity of the gezarah unless since the the reading earlier was a kulah, even for a chasah bualmah of Koras for eatting chometz on Pesah the kulah was nidcha. However if so why institute the kulah at all since even when everone was on the land it would be possible that someone would hear when Purim was but not Pesach.

Additionally why would the villagers say the Megillah is read on the 14th and base Pasach on that since that would only be the case when the kulah didnt apply and we are trying to explain why the kulah was not applied. Did the villagers not know the kulah even when it applied? Note when the kullah applied he would possibly read the megillah earlier than the 14th and not later so basing Pesach on that he would stop eatting chometz earlier than the 14th of Nissan. The most extreme case would be if he thought Purim was the 11th because he read then. He would think Pesach ende 3 days earlier than it really did. However that would be the 19th so it would mean in Nissan by the 19th he hadnt heard when Nissan started even though he heard by the 11th when Adar started.

This means we really have a chasash on a chasash b) a villager most extremen case wouldnt hear when the 19th of Nissan was even though he heard when the 11th of Adar was and b) that villager didnt understand the kullah and thought its always read on the 14th and use that as a basis for determining Pesach.

Sorry for the long winded question. If you respond please feel free to summarize it.

Thanks,

Yehudah Relis

The Kollel replies:

(a) The Talmud Yerushalmi (here, end of Halachah 1) asks how it could be that Mordechai and Esther made the "Takanah" that the villagers should read the Megilah on Mondays and Thursdays if the Takanah of reading the Torah on Mondays and Thursdays was only made later by Ezra? (see the Ritva, Meiri and Or Sameach Megilah 1:9 who explain the answer of the Yerushalmi). At any rate one sees from the Yerushalmi that Mordechai and Esther make the original Takanah for the villagers. Presumably this Takanah continued later on when the Jews returned to Eretz Yisrael.

(b) See the Rashash who writes that "at the time when the years were orderly" means not during "Sha'as Cheirum". It seems to me that the Rashash is referring to the Gemara in Bava Basra 38a which reports that there was a "state of emergency" when one could not travel freely between Yehudah and Galil - two provinces in Eretz Yisrael itself. I understand this is what Rashi here DH KESHE'SHERUYIN means when he writes that at the time when Yisrael were "dwelling comfortably on their land" the messengers reached the edges (see the Rashash) of Eretz Yisrael in time for Pesach. This implies that during the "Sha'as Cheirum" the "Sheluchin" could not even reach the borders of Eretz Yisrael by Pesach. This is surprising because we learned not long ago (see the Mishnah Ta'anis 10a) that it took the slowest traveler no more than 2 weeks to reach the northern border of Eretz Yisrael. However, according to Rashash one can now understand this because the "caravans" were not moving even inside Eretz Yisrael. At normal times on the other hand messengers were sent out even to the "Golah" as you cited from Rashi to Rosh Hashanah 18a.

(c) See the Ritva who writes (in explaining Rashi's position) that now that the majority of the multitude are "Amei ha'Aretz" they look at the day when the Megilah is read and count 30 days from then until Pesach. Therefore it seems to me that in the absence of "Sheluchin" even in Eretz Yisrael, the majority of people did not make complicated "Cheshbonos" but in a simple-minded way waited 30 days after they read the Megilah and then kept Pesach. If the Megilah would be read on 11 Adar etc. they would be eating Chametz on the last days of Pesach.

KOL TUV

D. Bloom

The Kollel adds:

Here is an additional insight concerning your comment on Rashi Megilah 2a DH KE-SHE-SHRUYIN, who writes that when Yisroel were on their land the messengers used to reach the borders of Eretz Yisroel, which seems to contradict what Rashi writes in Rosh Hashanah 18a DH AL that the Sheluchin were sent also to the Golah, i.e. Chutz La-aretz.

There is a 3rd comment of Rashi, on the Gemara in Sukah 44a DH BI-GEVULIN, where he writes that in the time when the Beis Hamikdash stood, all of the Jews lived in Eretz Yisroel. Rashash there cites our Rashi in Megilah 2a that implies that the Sheluchin only were sent to the edge of Eretz Yisroel, which fits in well with the Rashi in Sukah but does not seem to fit so well with the Rashi in Rosh Hashanah.

To answer this one can say that Rashi in Sukah does not actually mean that absolutely all of Klal Yisroel lived in Eretz Yisroel but rather that the majority did. Therefore at most periods it was only necessary to send the messengers inside Eretz Yisroel but when it was necessary to send them further, the Beis Din did this with particularly speedy means to enable them to reach their destination in Chutz La-aretz in time for Yomtov. They may have used the "Gamla Parcha" - the "flying camels". These are mentioned in the Gemara in Makos 5a as being capable of going from Sura to Nahardoa between morning and evening. Rashi there DH Gamla writes that there is a certain kind of camel which travels as quickly as a flying bird. Alternatively the Rashash in Sukah that we cited above, writes that the Sheluchin of the Beis Din rode on swift horses.

This method was not necessary during the time Rashi in Megilah 2a mentions, when Yisroel dwelt peacefully on their land. However it was necessary during the period Rashi mentions in Rosh Hashanah 18a.

KOL TUV

D. Bloom