CHULIN 29 (18 Teves) - Two weeks of study material have been dedicated by Mrs. Estanne Fawer to honor the Yahrzeit of her father, Rav Mordechai ben Eliezer Zvi (Rabbi Morton Weiner) Z'L, who passed away on 18 Teves 5760. May the merit of supporting and advancing Dafyomi study -- which was so important to him -- during the weeks of his Yahrzeit serve as an Iluy for his Neshamah.

1)

(a)We already quoted the Beraisa 'Shachat Chatzi Gargeres Ve'shahah bah K'dei Shechitah Acheres Ve'gamrah, Shechitaso Kesheirah'. What Kashya does this Beraisa pose on Rav?

(b)We refute the Kashya by establishing the Beraisa by a bird. What do we gain by doing that? How does it answer the Kashya?

(c)We also quoted the Beraisa 'Harei she'Hayah Chatzi Kanah Pagum, Ve'hosif alav Kol Sh'hu ve'Gamro, Shechitaso Kesheirah'. Rava refutes the Kashya from here on Rav (according to whom, the animal ought to be a T'reifah, like we just asked on the previous Beraisa) by differentiating between Shechitah and T'reifus. In what way is T'reifus different than Shechitah?

1)

(a)We already quoted the Beraisa 'Shachat Chatzi Gargeres Ve'shahah bah K'dei Shechitah Acheres Ve'gamrah, Shechitaso Kesheirah'. According to Rav, the Shechitah should be invalid, the moment the Shochet stopped after Shechting half the Gargeres, and the animal should become a Neveilah. What point is there then in completing the Shechitah?

(b)We refute the Kashya by establishing the Beraisa by a bird - in which case Mah Nafshach, if Mechtzah al Mechtzah is ke'Rov, once he has Shechted half the Gargeres, the Shechitah is complete, and if it is not, then he hasn't even begun the Shechitah.

(c)We also quoted the Beraisa 'Harei she'Hayah Chatzi Kanah Pagum, Ve'hosif alav Kol Sh'hu ve'Gamro, Shechitaso Kesheirah'. Rava refutes the Kashya from here on Rav (according to whom, the animal ought to be a T'reifah, like we just asked on the previous Beraisa) - by differentiating between Shechitah, which requires exactly a Rov, and T'reifus, which, where Rov is required (such as a broken Kaneh, or a broken spinal cord) requires Rov that is discernible.

2)

(a)What objection does Abaye raise to Rava's distinction? Why, if anything, is there more reason to require a discernible Rov by Shechitah than by T'reifus?

(b)What do we therefore conclude with regard to Mechtzah al Mechtzah by Shechitah?

(c)In fact, Rav and Rav Kahana are arguing over Mechtzah al Mechtzah by the Korban Pesach. Which area of Korban Pesach, other than the Shechitah, requires a Rov?

2)

(a)Abaye objects to Rava's distinction, by arguing that if anything there is more reason to require a discernible Rov by Shechitah - which always requires a Rov, than T'reifus, which, in many cases (such as a hole in the Veshet, in the lungs and in the intestines), takes effect even with a Mashehu.

(b)We therefore conclude that with regard to Shechitah - 'Mechtzah al Mechtzah Eino ke'Rov'.

(c)In fact, Rav and Rav Kahana are arguing over Mechtzah and Mechtzah by the Korban Pesach - which (besides with regard to Shechitah) requires the majority of people to be Tamei, in order to apply the principle Tum'ah Hutrah be'Tzibur. Otherwise, those who are Tamei, have to bring the Korban Pesach Sheini.

3)

(a)What are then the ramifications of the Machlokes. What is the meaning of Mechtzah al Mechtzah ...

1. ... ke'Rov?

2. ... Eino ke'Rov?

(b)How does Rav learn Mechtzah al Mechtzah ke'Rov from "Ish Ish" (in the Pasuk in Beha'aloscha "Ish Ish ki Yih'yeh Tamei la'Nefesh")?

3)

(a)Consequently, Mechtzah al Mechtzah ...

1. ... ke'Rov (Rav) means that - the entire community bring the Korban Pesach Rishon (though the Tehorim and the Temei'im bring it separately).

2. ... Eino ke'Rov' (Rav Kahana) means that - the Tehorim bring the Pesach Rishon, and the Temei'im, the Pesach Sheini.

(b)Rav learns Mechtzah al Mechtzah ke'Rov from "Ish Ish" (in the Pasuk in Beha'aloscha "Ish Ish ki Yih'yeh Tamei la'Nefesh") - because even though half the congregation is not a majority, it can no longer be considered an individual ("Ish") but a Tzibur (which is nevertheless not rejected from bringing the Pesach Rishon be'Tum'ah).

4)

(a)How does Rav Hoshaya explain the Tana's need to repeat 'Rov Echad be'Of ve'Rov Shenayim bi'Veheimah', in spite of having already taught 'Rubo shel Echad Kamohu'?

(b)Having taught the Din of Rov by ...

1. ... Chulin, why does the Tana find it necessary to repeat it by Kodshim?

2. ... Kodshim, why does he need to repeat it by Chulin?

(c)How does Rav Kahana extrapolate from the Lashon 'ha'Shochet Echad be'Of ... ' that the Reisha must be speaking by Chulin (and the Seifa by Kodshim, and not vice-versa)?

(d)How do we refute the counter proof from the Lashon in the Seifa 'Rov Echad be'Of u'Shenayim bi'Veheimah, Shechitaso Kesheirah'? Why is there no proof from there that the Seifa is speaking about Chulin?

4)

(a)Rav Hoshaya explains the Tana's need to repeat 'Rov Echad be'Of ve'Rov Shenayim bi'Veheimah', in spite of having already taught 'Rubo shel Echad Kamohu' - by establishing one by Chulin and the other, by Kodshim.

(b)Having taught the Din of Rov by ...

1. ... Chulin, the Tana nevertheless finds it necessary to repeat it by Kodshim - because, since in the latter case, the blood is required for Zerikah, we might have thought that one is obligated to Shecht the entire Si'man.

2. ... Kodshim, the Tana needs to repeat it by Chulin - to teach us that, despite the fact that the blood is not needed, it, like Kodshim, requires the majority of the Si'man to be Shechted, and not just half.

(c)Rav Kahana extrapolatess from the Lashon 'ha'Shochet Echad be'Of ... ' that the Reisha must be speaking by Chulin (and the Seifa by Kodshim, and not vice-versa) - because otherwise, the Tana ought to have said 'ha'Molek Echad be'Of ... '.

(d)We refute the counter proof from the Lashon in the Seifa 'Rov Echad be'Of u'Shenayim bi'Veheimah, Shechitaso Kesheirah' - by establishing 'Shechitaso Kesheirah' with regard to 'u'Shenayim bi'Beheimah', which precedes it.

5)

(a)How does Rav Shimi bar Ashi prove from 'Rov Echad be'Of' in the Reisha, that it must be referring to Chulin?

(b)And how do we then interpret 'Rov Echad be'Of' in the Seifa, to refute the counter proof from there that, by the same token, it must be talking about Chulin, because otherwise there is Olas ha'Of that requires two Simanim?

(c)Then why did the Tana not say 'Rov Shenayim'?

(d)How does Rav Papa prove from the Machlokes between Rebbi Yehudah and the Rabbanan regarding the Varidin, that the Reisha must be speaking about Chulin?

5)

(a)Rav Shimi bar Ashi proves from 'Rov Echad be'Of' in the Reisha, that it must be referring to Chulin - because Kodshim incorporates the Olas ha'Of, which requires the Melikah of two Simanim.

(b)And to refute the counter proof from there that, by the same token, 'Rov Echad be'Of' in the Seifa must be talking about Chulin, because otherwise there is Olas ha'Of that requires two Simanim, we interpret the Seifa to mean - 'Rov Kol Echad ve'Echad be'Of' (one Si'man by a Chatas ha'Of, two, by an Olah).

(c)And the reason that the Tana did not say 'Rov Shenayim' is - because he also wanted to accommodate *Chatas ha'Of*.

(d)Rav Papa proves from the Machlokes between Rebbi Yehudah and the Rabbanan regarding the Varidin, that the Reisha must be speaking about Chulin - because as far as Kodshim is concerned, where the blood is needed for Zerikah, the Rabbanan will concede to Rebbi Yehudah that one must also Shecht the Varidin.

6)

(a)How does Rav Ashi prove from the next Mishnah ('ha'Shochet Sh'nei Roshin ke'Echad, Shechitaso Kesheirah') that the Seifa must be referring to Kodshim?

(b)The basis for this is a Beraisa cited by Rav Yosef. What does the Tana learn from ...

1. ... "Tizbach" (in the Pasuk in Kedoshim "li'Retzonchem *Tizbach*uhu"?

2. ... Tizbachu*hu*")?

(c)How does Rav Kahana explain the Tana's first ruling?

6)

(a)Rav Ashi proves from the next Mishnah 'ha'Shochet Sh'nei Roshin ke'Echad, Shechitaso Kesheirah' (implying Bedi'eved) that the Seifa must be talking about Kodshim - because it is only by Kodshim that one is forbidden Lechatchilah to Shecht two animals simultaneously (whereas by Chulin, it is permitted, even Lechatchilah).

(b)The basis for this is a Beraisa cited by Rav Yosef, where the Tana learns from from ...

1. ... "Tizbach" (in the Pasuk in Kedoshim "li'Retzonchem *Tizbach*uhu"that - two people are forbidden to Shecht Kodshim together.

2. ... "Tizbach*hu*" (singular) - that one person is forbidden to Shecht two Korbanos simultaneously.

(c)Rav Kahana attributes the Tana's first ruling to the fact that - "Tizbachuhu" is spelt without a 'Hey' (after the 'Ches'), as if it read 'Tizbecheihu' (in the singular).

7)

(a)Resh Lakish too, deals with the repetition of 'Rov Si'man' in our Mishnah, to which end he cites the Mishnah in Yoma. With reference to the Kohen Gadol on Yom Kipur, what does the Tana there mean when he states 'Hevi'o lo es ha'Tamid, Kartzo, u'Meirak Acher Shechitaso al-Yado'?

(b)How does Resh Lakish connect this with our Mishnah 'Rov Echad be'Of, Rov Shenayim bi'Veheimah'?

(c)What does this prove?

7)

(a)Resh Lakish too, deals with the repetition of 'Rov Si'man' in our Mishnah, to which end he cites the Mishnah in Yoma. With reference to the Kohen Gadol on Yom Kipur, when the Tana writes 'Hevi'o lo es ha'Tamid, Kartzo, u'Meirak Acher Shechitaso al-Yado', he means that - when they brought the Kohen Gadol (on whose shoulders the entire Avodas ha'Yom fell), the Korban Tamid, he performed the beginning of the Shechitah (as much as was necessary), and somebody else completed it.

(b)Resh Lakish connects this with our Mishnah 'Rov Echad be'Of, Rov Shenayim bi'Veheimah' inasmuch as - based on 'Rov Echad be'Of', there too, the Shechitah will be Kasher Bedi'eved, even if nobody else completes it.

(c)This proves - that Resh Lakish, like Rav Ashi, extrapolates from the Seifa itself, that it is speaking about Kodshim.

8)

(a)The Beraisa we just cited, initially suggests that if nobody else completes the Shechitah, then it is Pasul. If that is the case, what will be the problem with somebody else completing it? What did we learn in a Beraisa about the Avodos on Yom Kipur?

(b)We answer that 'Yachol Yehei Pasul', in this instance, means Pasul mi'de'Rabbanan. What Kashya does this pose on the Beraisa 'u'Meirak Acher Shechitaso al-Yado'?

(c)What do we answer?

(d)On what grounds do we reject the suggestion that the Mitzvah is that of be'Rov Am Hadras Melech (the more people involved in the Avodah, the more the King is honored)?

8)

(a)The Beraisa we just cited, initially suggests that if nobody else completes the Shechitah, then it is Pasul. If that is the case, the problem with somebody else completing it, based on the Beraisa that all the Avodos on Yom Kipur have to be performed by the Kohen Gadol, is that - seeing as the Shechitah must be completed, how can anybody else other than the Kohen Gadol perform it?

(b)We answer that 'Yachol Yehei Pasul', in this instance, means Pasul mi'de'Rabbanan. In that case, seeing as we conclude that failing to complete the Shechitah is not even Pasul mi'de'Rabbanan, why does the Beraisa conclude 'u'Meirak Acher Shechitaso al Yado' (see Tosfos DH 'Lamah li Lemarek')? Why should he?

(c)And we answer - that nonetheless there is a Mitzvah to complete the Shechitah.

(d)We reject the suggestion that the current Mitzvah is that of 'be'Rov Am Hadras Melech' (the more people involved in the Avodah, the more the King's honor is enhanced') - because if that were so, the same stringency ought to extend to all the Avodos on Yom Kipur, yet we see that, to the contrary, the Torah is particular that nobody should be in the Ohel Mo'ed when the Kohen Gadol enters.

29b----------------------------------------29b

9)

(a)According to Resh Lakish in the name of Levi Saba, it is not called Shechitah until the Shechitah is complete. What does Rebbi Yochanan say?

(b)On what grounds does Rava explain that even Resh Lakish will concede that if ...

1. ... a Nochri Shechts one Si'man and a Yisrael, the other, the Shechitah is Pasul?

2. ... a Kohen performs Melikah on one Si'man of an Olas ha'Of below the Chut ha'Sikra and the other, above, it is Pasul?

(c)According to Rava, what are the ramifications of the Machlokes?

9)

(a)According to Resh Lakish in the name of Levi Saba, it is not called Shechitah until the Shechitah is complete. Rebbi Yochanan holds that - the entire process is called Shechitah.

(b)Rava explains that even Resh Lakish will concede that if ...

1. ... a Nochri Shechts one Si'man and a Yisrael, the other, the Shechitah is Pasul - because even though the Shechitah itself is not performed by a Nochri, nevertheless part of the act that might disqualify the Shechitah was not performed by a Yisrael.

2. ... a Kohen performed Melikah on one Si'man of an Olas ha'Of below the Chut ha'Sikra and the other, above, it is Pasul - because he performed what would be a Kasher Melikah with regard to a Chatas ha'Of, on an Olas ha'Of.

(c)According to Rava, the ramifications of the Machlokes are - in a case where someone Shechted one Si'man outside the Azarah and the other one, inside, where he will be Chayav for Shechutei Chutz, according to Rebbi Yochanan, but Patur, according to Resh Lakish.

10)

(a)According to Rabah bar Shimi quoting Rav Yosef, Resh Lakish will agree that in this latter case too, the Shochet is Chayav. Why is that?

(b)He agrees however, that the Machlokes concerns Shechutei Chutz. Over which case are they then arguing?

10)

(a)According to Rabah bar Shimi quoting Rav Yosef, Resh Lakish will agree that in this latter case too, the Shochet is Chayav - because he performed a Ma'aseh Chatas ha'Of (which is Kasher bi'Fenim with the Melikah of one Si'man [even though we are talking about Shechitah]).

(b)He agrees however, that the Machlokes concerns Shechutei Chutz - in a case where he Shechted a minority of the Simanim ba'Chutz, and the majority bi'Fenim (which will be Pasul according to Rebbi Yochanan, but Kasher, according to Resh Lakish).

11)

(a)The Beraisa issues two rulings with regard to all those who deal with the burning and sprinkling of the Parah Adumah from beginning to end. One, that they render the clothes that they are wearing Tamei. What is the other?

(b)Who, besides the one who Shechts it, burns it, and throws the cedar wood, the hyssop and the crimson thread into the burning cow, does this incorporate?

(c)The Tana rules that if a P'sul occurs in the Shechitah, the clothes of those preparing it do not become Tamei, even those that dealt with it before the P'sul occurred. What does he say about a P'sul that occurs during the seven Haza'os towards the Ohel Mo'ed?

(d)What does Rava say to explain why, according to Rebbi Yochanan, the Tana does not draw the same distinction by the Shechitah as he does by the Haza'ah?

11)

(a)The Beraisa issues two rulings with regard to all those who deal with the burning and sprinkling of the Parah Adumah from beginning to end. One, that they render the clothes that they are wearing Tamei; the other that - someone who performs another task (such as cutting a melon) simultaneously with the Melachah on hand, invalidates the Parah.

(b)Besides the one who Shechts it, burns it, and throws the cedar wood, the hyssop and the crimson thread into the burning cow, this incorporates - the one who gathers its ashes.

(c)The Tana rules that if a P'sul occurs in the Shechitah, the clothes of those preparing it do not become Tamei, even those that dealt with it before the P'sul occurred; whereas if it occurs during the Haza'os of its blood (seven times towards the Ohel Mo'ed) - then the clothes of those who worked with it before it became Pasul are Tamei.

(d)Rava explains that, even according to Rebbi Yochanan, the Tana does not draw the same distinction by the Shechitah as he does by the Haza'ah - because once the Shechitah turns out to be Pasul, it is Pasul retroactively (in which case it transpires that all the Avodos were performed with an ordinary cow).

12)

(a)Rava has a problem with the current Beraisa, which discusses a Parah that becomes Pasul in the course of its preparation. What does he ask, according to Resh Lakish ('Einah li'Shechitah Ela be'Sof'), from a case where two people Shecht it consecutively?

(b)What advantage does this case have over the case that the Tana actually presents?

(c)How does Rav Yosef try to answer Rava's Kashya, based on the Beraisa that we cited on the previous Amud. What did the Tana there learn from the word "Tizbach(uhu)"?

12)

(a)Rava has a problem with the current Beraisa, which discusses a Parah that becomes Pasul in the course of its preparation. He asks why, according to Resh Lakish ('Einah li'Shechitah Ela be'Sof'), the Tana does not present the case where two people Shecht the Parah Adumah consecutively, in which case the first one will not be Tamei, whereas the second one, will.

(b)The advantage of this case over the case that the Tana actually presents is that - it pertains even to a Parah that did not become Pasul.

(c)Rav Yosef tries to answer Rava's Kashya, based on the Beraisa that we cited on the previous Amud, where the Tana learned from the word "Tizbach(uhu)" that - two people are forbidden to Shecht the same Kodshim animal simultaneously.

13)

(a)Abaye counters that this Beraisa is the opinion of Rebbi Elazar b'Rebbi Shimon S'timta'ah, but the Chachamim disagree. What does S'timta'ah mean?

(b)Rava's Kashya therefore remains unanswered, according to the Chachamim. How will the problem with Rebbi Yochanan remain even according to Rebbi Elazar b'Rebbi Shimon? What distinction might the Tana have drawn (regarding Tum'as Begadim) even where only one Kohen Shechted the Parah Adumah?

(c)We conclude that the Tana is only concerned with the *P'sul* of the Parah, but not with its *Hechsher*. What do we mean by that?

13)

(a)Abaye counters that this Beraisa is the opinion of Rebbi Elazar b'Rebbi Shimon S'timta'ah - the author of many S'tam Mishnahs, but the Chachamim disagree with him.

(b)Rava's Kashya therefore remains unanswered, according to the Chachamim. In fact, the problem with Rebbi Yochanan remains even according to Rebbi Elazar b'Rebbi Shimon, in a case where only one Kohen Shechted the Parah Adumah - and someone came and exchanged his Sudar (the headgear normally worn by a Talmid-Chacham), in which case the first Sudar ought to be Tahor, and the second one, Tamei.

(c)We conclude that the Tana is only concerned with the *P'sul* of the Parah, but not with its *Hechsher*, by which we mean that - the Tana's objective is to teach us what happens when the Parah Adumah becomes Pasul, and not the Dinim of Shechitah by a Kasher one.

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