BAVA BASRA 150 - A week of learning has been dedicated towards meriting a Refu'ah Sheleimah for Eliezer Lipa ben Yetta, by Mr. and Mrs. Kornfeld of Yerushalayim.

150b----------------------------------------150b

1)THE ENACTMENT TO COLLECT A KESUVAH FROM METALTELIM

(a)Gemara

1.(Rav Yehudah): If a man wrote a document giving all his property to his wife, he only made her an overseer.

2.(Rava): Only regarding a Kesuvah, giving all one's land is like giving everything. Chachamim enacted that it is collected only from land, not from Metaltelim.

3.(Ameimar): If a man gives all his property to his sons except for Metaltelim (that were designated to pay the Kesuvah), she does not forfeit her (lien on his property to collect her) Kesuvah (because she expects to collect it from the Metaltelim, she sees no need to protest about the land).

4.Kidushin 65b (Beraisa): Two men and a woman came from abroad with a bundle. Each man claims 'the other man is my slave. The woman is my wife. The bundle is mine.' She claims 'they are both my slaves. The bundle is mine.' She needs a Get from each man; she collects a Kesuvah from the bundle.

5.This is like R. Meir, who says that there is a lien on Metaltelim to collect a Kesuvah.

6.Kesuvos 67a (R. Shmuel bar Nachmani): A woman collects Parna (her Kesuvah) from camels of Arabia.

7.(Rav Papi): A woman collects Parna from garments of Bei Michsi, sacks of Rodiya and ropes of Kimchoniya. 8. (Rava): I used to say that women collect Parna from a wallet full of coins in Mechuza, because they rely on them, Once I saw that they use the money to buy land, I realized that they rely on land, so they may collect only from land.

(b)Rishonim

1.Rif (Kesuvos 30b): Nowadays that Rabanan of the Yeshivos enacted that a woman collects her Kesuvah even from Metaltelim, food is included. We hold that Tanai Kesuvah are like the Kesuvah. However, Parnasah (a girl gets a 10th of her father's estate when she gets married) is not a Tanai Kesuvah, so its law did not change (it is only from land).

2.Rosh (Kesuvos 6:5): Women collect Parna, i.e. the Kesuvah, from camels of Arabia, because women rely on them, like wallets full of coins in Mechuza. Poskim learn from here that there is a lien on our Metaltelim to pay a Kesuvah, for our business is mostly with coins and Metaltelim. They are like camels of Arabia. R. Tam disagrees. If they are like land, if a man sold them, a widow should be able to collect from her Kesuvah from the buyer. Takanas ha'Shuk (Chachamim removed Shibud from Metaltelim, lest people be afraid to buy things) would be Batel! Rather, the Kesuvah is collected from Metaltelim because men write in the Kesuvah a lien on Metaltelim Agav (along with) land. We do not write 'Keni', so that they cannot be collected from buyers.

i.Korban Nesan'el (Kesuvos 6:70): Tosfos cites R. Tam to say that Kesuvah is collected from Metaltelim due to the enactment that creditors have a lien on Metaltelim. Nevertheless, we write in the Kesuvah, lest a man not know and she collect improperly. Takanas ha'Shuk applies to Kesuvah because buyers cannot beware. Every (married) man has Shibud Kesuvah!

3.Rosh (Teshuvah 36:3): Nowadays women collect from loans, since our main business is lending to Nochrim (on interest). Women rely mostly on this. Without this, most Kesuvos would be uprooted.

i.Beis Yosef (EH 100 DH v'Nir'eh): This reason is needed only for those who do not write in the Kesuvah a lien on Metaltelim Agav land.

4.Rosh (Kidushin 3:14): Only R. Meir says that a woman collects her Kesuvah from her husband's Metaltelim; Chachamim disagree. R. Meir agrees that she cannot collect from orphans' Metaltelim. If not, he would give greater collection rights for a Kesuvah than for a debt, which is not collected from orphans' Metaltelim. This would be totally contrary to Chachamim, who give greater collection rights for a debt than for a Kesuvah (a debt is collected from the borrower's Metaltelim).

i.Rebuttal (Ran Nedarim Sof 65b): She does not collect her Kesuvah until she is widowed or divorced. Chachamim hold that therefore she does not rely on collecting from her husband's Metaltelim, hence she has no lien on them. Indeed, R. Meir says that she has greater collection rights than a creditor!

5.Rosh (ibid.): R. Meir holds that a Kesuvah is collected from a gift of Metaltelim (Yevamos 99b). This shows that orphans have greater rights (to keep their property) than one who received a gift. However, in Bava Basra (133a) we say that food (for a widow) is collected from inheritance mid'Oraisa, all the more so from a gift mid'Rabanan. This implies that it is not collected from a gift mid'Oraisa! Food is collected from a gift to one's children. This implies that it is not collected from a gift to others! Perhaps Yevamos 99b discusses a Matanas Shechiv me'Ra mid'Rabanan. Alternatively, Bava Basra brought a Kal va'Chomer to collect from a gift mid'Rabanan. We also collect from a gift mid'Oraisa, but it is not a Kal va'Chomer. However, in Bava Metzi'a (12b) we permit returning a found document only if it has no Achrayus. If one may collect a debt (without Achrayus) from a gift, we should forbid in every case, lest one collect from a gift! We hold that a Milveh Al Peh is collected from heirs. Ge'onim enacted to collect Kesuvah and food from Metaltelim nowadays. If a gift is stronger than inheritance, these cannot be collected from gifts that the father gave, or even if the heirs gave. It seems that this is the Halachah. A creditor does not collect improvements to land from one who received a gift, but he collects from heirs.

6.Rambam (Hilchos Ishus 16:7): Ge'onim in all the Yeshivos enacted that a widow collects from Metaltelim, just like they enacted for creditors. This enactment spread throughout most of Yisrael. It applies to all Tanai Kesuvah, except for Kesuvas Benin Dichrin (male sons inherit their mother's Kesuvah). We leave this according to Gemara law, that it is collected only from land.

i.Magid Mishneh: This was enacted because nowadays many men deal only with Metaltelim, and a woman relies on them, like we find in Kesuvos 67a.

(c)Poskim

1.Shulchan Aruch (EH 100:1): According to the Gemara, Ikar Kesuvah and Tosefes are collected only from land. Ge'onim enacted that the Kesuvah and all its Tanayim are collected from Metaltelim, except for Kesuvas Benin Dichrin. Therefore, if the heirs collected money owed to the father, she collects from it.

2.Rema: The heirs can dispel her by paying her with land.

i.Beis Shmuel (4): If the Kesuvah explicitly put a lien on Metaltelim, they cannot make her take land. If not, also her ex-husband can make her take land. The enactment was only when he has no land.

3.Shulchan Aruch (ibid.): It is collected only from Metaltelim Bnei Chorin. She cannot collect if he sold or gave them amidst health (not a Shechiv Mera).

i.Beis Yosef (DH u'Mah v'Chen Chosav): Tosfos (Kesuvos 49b DH Hu) says that if she collects from inheritance mid'Oraisa, all the more so she collects from Matanas Shechiv me'Ra mid'Rabanan.

4.Rema: Some say that this is only if he gave to others, but if he gave to his heirs amidst health she collects, for anything given to heirs is like inheritance.

i.Chelkas Mechokek (7): The Mordechai and others say that this was said l'Halachah, but in practice we do not collect.

ii.Beis Shmuel (6): The heirs can say that they hold like the opinion that does not distinguish between gifts to heirs or to others.

5.Shulchan Aruch (ibid.): If the heirs sold the Metaltelim after the father died, she collects. Nowadays our custom is to write in all Kesuvos a lien on all his property, 'land and Metaltelim Agav land, that I acquired and that I will acquire.' Even so, we do not collect from Metaltelim he sold or gave amidst health, nor from Metaltelim the heirs sold, due to Takanas ha'Shuk.

i.Beis Yosef (DH u'Mah she'Chosav Rabeinu) and Bedek ha'Bayis: It seems clear that once the husband died, the property is in front of the widow, so the heirs cannot give it. We do not collect for food from what the brothers sold, but we collect the Kesuvah. However, Tosfos and R. Yerucham disagree.

ii.Beis Yosef (DH ul'Didan): Since we write Metaltelim Agav land, she collects even from Metaltelim that he sold, just like from land. (However, this is not the practice, due to Takanas ha'Shuk.)

iii.Chelkas Mechokek (10): The Rosh (Kidushin 3:14) said that even if they gave a gift, she does not collect! The Bach says that this is only regarding food, but she collects her Kesuvah even from a sale. Kitzur Piskei ha'Rosh says so.

iv.Chelkas Mechokek (11): Why does Takanas ha'Shuk apply to the husband's gift (like his sale), but not regarding heirs? Perhaps if it did, all heirs would do so, and the Ge'onim's enactment would be futile.

v.Beis Shmuel (9): If he wrote Metaltelim Agav land and she is holding the Metaltelim, she keeps them. Takanas ha'Shuk does not apply here.

See also:

COLLECTING METALTELIM OF ORPHANS (Kesuvos 92)

Other Halachos relevant to this Daf:

A DOCUMENT TO DIVERT PROPERTY (Kesuvos 79)

OTHER D.A.F. RESOURCES ON THIS DAF