80b----------------------------------------80b

1)IS HONEY A LIQUID?

(a)Gemara

1.(Rav Kahana): Honey in a hive is always considered food.

2.Question (Beraisa): Honey in a hive is neither a food nor a drink.

3.Answer #1 (Abaye): The Beraisa refers to the two loaves (that sustain the bees in winter).

4.Answer #2 (Rava): The Beraisa is like R. Eliezer (who holds that it is considered to be attached, therefore it does not receive Tum'ah.)

5.Support (for Rav Kahana - Beraisa): Honey in a hive receives Tum'ah like a food, even without intention to eat it.

6.Shabbos 19a (Mishnah): Beis Hillel and Beis Shamai agree that one may put beams (on top of olives or grapes...)

7.In the other cases, if one would do so on Shabbos he would be liable, Beis Shamai decree just before Shabbos. Here, if one would put on the beams on Shabbos he would be exempt, they do not decree.

8.Question: Who is our Tana, who permits whatever comes by itself (e.g. the juice that flows from the grapes and olives)?

9.Answer (R. Elazar): It is (the Tana) R. Elazar:

i.(Mishnah): If cakes of honey were crushed before Shabbos and the honey flowed out on Shabbos, it is forbidden;

ii.R. Elazar permits.

10.R. Yosi b'Rebbi Chanina answered differently. He holds that we cannot learn from there, for the honey was a (solid) food from the beginning. Here, we permit even a liquid squeezed from a solid.

11.Menachos 30b (Ravin bar Chinena): The Halachah follows R. Shimon Shezuri here, and in all places.

12.31a (Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak): He refers to the coming Mishnah.

13.(Mishnah - R. Meir): Oil is always a Rishon l'Tum'ah;

14.Chachamim say, even honey (is always a Rishon);

15.R. Shimon Shezuri says, even wine.

16.Question: Do the previous Tana'im say that wine is not (a Rishon)?!

17.Correction: Rather, R. Shimon Shezuri says, wine (is a Rishon, but oil and honey are not).

(b)Rishonim

1.Rambam (Hilchos Tum'as Ochlim 1:18): Honey in its hive has Tum'as Ochlim even without intent, i.e. even if without intent to eat it. If he scraped it out, it has Tum'as Mashkim. If it dripped out, it has Tum'as Mashkim; if one intended for a solid, it has Tum'as Ochlim

2.Tosfos (80a DH Eino): How can Rav Kahana say that honey in a hive is always a food? A Mishnah (Machshirin 6:4) counts it among the seven liquids that are Machshir! That it after it separates from the wax. In the hive, it is with the wax, so it is considered a food, and not a liquid.

3.Tosfos (Menachos 31a DH Eima): R. Tam asked, here we rule like R. Shimon Shezuri, but throughout Shas, oil is considered a liquid! Wine and oil are among the seven liquids that are Machshir (Machshirin 6:4), and this is why we are concerned for Tum'ah when harvesting olives (Shabbos 17a) and for the juice that comes from olives (Shabbos 144b). We must say that here we discuss congealed oil. The Reisha (Taharos 3:1) says 'gravy, porridge and Chelev, when they are liquids (are a Rishon l'Tum'ah).' This is why R. Meir says 'always.'

4.Note: If so, why was it clear to the Gemara that the previous Tana'im cannot argue about wine?

5.Tosfos (Pesachim 14b DH Afilu): The Tana'im in Menachos discuss liquids that congealed, and afterwards melted.

(c)Poskim

1.Shulchan Aruch (OC 158:4): If one eats something dipped in one of the seven liquids, for which the acronym is Yad Shochat Dam (Rema - wine, honey, oil, milk, dew, blood, and water), and it is not dry, he must wash.

i.Magen Avraham (7): Birkas ha'Zevach (Menachos 31a DH Tosfos) says that congealed honey is not a liquid, therefore one need not wash for jam. The Radvaz (4:1554) says that this is whether it congealed through cooking or the cold, but if it merely became slightly thick and it still flows, one must wash. R. Shimshon (Taharos 3:1) says that it is a liquid only if it is Tofe'ach Lehatfi'ach (wet enough to wet something else). If not, it is a food. In Mishnah 2 he brings the Tosefta that says that honey that flows from the hive has Tum'as Mashkim (of liquids), but if he intended to eat it, it has Tum'as Ochlim. Our honey jam is for eating, so it is not a liquid and one need not wash for it. Tosfos (Bava Basra 80) says that also congealed oil, blood and milk are not liquids. The Kesef Mishneh connotes that this is even if they later melted, except for wine.

ii.Machatzis ha'Shekel (7): We discuss bee's honey. Date honey is fruit juice, which is not Machshir. The Magen Avraham holds that Tosfos says that when it is with the wax it is considered a food because it is congealed.

iii.Taz (7): Some want to permit eating jam with honey without washing. They rely on the Tosefta which says that if honey dripped from a hive and one intended for a solid, it has Tum'as Ochlim. Here, we intend to fry it for eating. This is folly. Uktzin 3:11 says that honey receives Tum'as Mashkim from when one scrapes it out of the hive. All our honey is scraped out with the wax. Since he did an action, it is considered a liquid even if later he intended for a food. The Rambam says that honey in its hive has Tum'as Ochlim even without intent, i.e. even without intent to eat it. If he scraped it out, it has Tum'as Mashkim. If it dripped out, it has Tum'as Mashkim; if one intended for a solid, it has Tum'as Ochlim. This shows that intent matters only when it flowed out by itself, but not when he scraped it out, for intent does not override an action. Do not say that frying is an action and negates the action of scraping. An action negates an action only regarding Tum'ah of Kelim. Tum'ah of food and drink goes away only when the food is spoiled so that a dog would not eat it. When something was Stam destined to be a liquid, intent can change it to a food, but when an action made something a liquid, no action can change it to a food. If we would not say so, honey would not be Machshir a food, for we would say that intent for a food makes it a food!

iv.Machatzis ha'Shekel (7 DH Ayen): According to Tosfos in Pesachim, we have two Heterim for (honey) jam (without washing). Firstly, it is destined to be eaten. Secondly, if it was once a solid, even if it later melted, it is not a liquid. The Taz disagrees with the first Heter. It seems that he disagrees also with the second, for in Sa'if 9 he requires washing for a dough fried in butter (even though the butter was a solid). The Magen Avraham proved otherwise from Tosfos.

v.Mishnah Berurah (14): The Poskim say that if any liquid congealed through cooking or the cold, and it is not Tofe'ach Lehatfi'ach (wet enough to wet something else), it is not a liquid. Tosfos says that even if it later melts, it is not a liquid, except for wine or water. The same applies to frozen milk that melted. According to this, if jam was fried in honey and the honey hardened and it is not wet, all agree that it is not a liquid. If it is wet, the Taz considers it like a liquid. The Magen Avraham considers it a solid, for it is meant to be eaten. The Chayei Adam said that if one bought honey with wax and melted it for frying, it was never a liquid, so one need not wash for it. If he bought honey already melted for the sake of a drink, he must wash for it even if he used it for frying. Derech ha'Chayim is lenient if he uses a fork to eat jam fried in honey. No one requires washing for jam fried in sugar.

vi.Kaf ha'Chayim (15): The Radvaz (1:78) says that if one dips his finger in honey and eats it, he need not wash. Some say that the Beis Yosef disagrees. The Acharonim hold like the Radvaz (Birkei Yosef 13)

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